Behavioral Health Therapy With Mental Health Network CEO Kristin Walker

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Video Transcript

welcome to intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective podcast where we meet experts from all walks of life to learn their intrinsic motivations so that they can share it with the world what do we have a store today stay tuned to find out more [Music] good morning good evening good afternoon everybody out there in podcast land you are in tuned to another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective this is Hamza and I am David and today we are blessed to speak with a wonderful person who has over 30 years of volunteering and working in mental health if you’ve listened to our recent podcast mental health seems to be a hot topic which used to be put in the back burner so now we have a CEO of a podcast network that is dedicated to mental health and without further ado I’d like to welcome Kristin walk through the podcast welcome Kristin hi gentlemen thank you so much for inviting me on it’s my pleasure yeah we buy the area now I wanted to ask you before we get into pedigrees and all that there what I’ve heard or what I’ve learned is from a term called feeding and what that feeding is is if I’ve never bought a BMW before the minute I buy I see it everywhere okay so from us we’re seeing a lot of mental health awareness or just the topic of it in recent months but for someone that lives and breathes this is that the case is there an uptick or what are you seeing on your side well is there an uptick it’s hard to this is a chicken and egg thing maybe it’s hard to say because I am so steeped in it I feel like it’s much more prevalent that we can talk about these things but then I’m not the greatest you know I am in this field in every way possible the way that I the only way that I can effectively notice it is conversations I have outside of the field which are very rare and how not as uncomfortable people are with things that come out of my mouth [Laughter] you know I don’t get the be quiet look down they’ve stopped talking they’re uncomfortable I don’t get that quite as much as I did before okay well let’s back let’s go all the way back then because typically people go to school for our business or law or teaching and you got in the mental health and you you’ve been in it for over thirty years so what Clark the interest well um I want to you know put this out there my pedigree depending on what you know you guys dmoz pedigree is probably very short for i up against or along with guests that I have in my show I don’t have a degree in anything zero I tested out of high school early to go work full-time and all of my experience in mental health mental health has been as two things a volunteer and as a patient of mental health services so that’s a met and then also working in the technology field supporting mental health organizations so that’s my experience I don’t come at this from a clinician or you know neuroscientist or anything like that kind of a standpoint I’m always advocating on behalf of the patient that’s receiving services and trying to make people aware that everybody could benefit from mental health services and that there are no different it’s no different and no less important than your physical health your brain health your bunion health you know so that’s that’s my quote unquote pedigree so Paul McGann mmm right it sounds like what I’m sorry I missed that I was saying it sound like I was just calling on the job by train oh my gosh yes yeah and that’s how I learned and I do have an extent of childhood with trauma and I’ve been very vocal and outspoken about it at a very young age I’m used to making people feel uncomfortable and that’s okay I took that on and that’s okay because it got conversations going and I was talking about things like sexual abuse when I was 13 14 15 16 and doing speeches about it in front of the clinicians and ER doctors and so on so the landscape in terms of people receiving the information has way changed I used to get pointed at called out how dare you say this about your family bla bla bla bla or just people not understanding what I’m saying doctors and so on that are trying to ask me well how do you tell if someone has experienced trauma and that has completely changed I can’t see that those conversations would necessarily happen the way that they did in today’s landscape was the knowledge we have out there but you know when I was I’m 48 so when I was talking about this stuff we’re talking 1983 you did not talk about things like sexual abuse in 1983 yeah I think what you said as far as a dwell in again with regards to pedigrees I think sometimes it’s better that someone is listening to or has access to an advocate you know that way you’re more on the ground floor ground level and it’s like oh I can totally relate as opposed to like you said buttoning up and not being as forthcoming with information when they speak to a professor you know a doctor or so forth yes absolutely and honestly you know people have said you should be a life coach you should go to school finally and I’m like well I can I can can the network if I’m going to go to school now because I don’t have topic but this is I’m not going to do that I’ve done really well without that not that I you know mean many most of my friends have advanced degrees so it’s not like I’ve put that down at all it’s just that I want to be able to have the cover station and me being an advocate without the licensure allows me to speak freely and that’s important to me and I was a clinician and I’ve actually had counselors say you’re way too personal on your show and I have to remind them I’m not a therapist I don’t have to you know not share the way that you have to not share and then they go oh right I’m sorry you’re right you know it takes them it because I know so much and I’m around therapists all the time they it’s a compliment that they think I’m a colleague and the reality is I’m not I’m really not a colleague I’m maybe on the business side I can be but um you know I’m I’m in a different space than they are so I can say whatever I want I love it sure no censorship at all exactly and that’s the point I mean mental health should not have censorship it’s your mental health what about it I didn’t exactly I’m always like let’s get back to the basics when you think of mental health I mean it’s such a big umbrella and there’s so much under it so if you can kind of walk us through of what you’re seeing as to I hate to say the most popular thing but yeah you know we see as far as disorders that again seems to be on an uptick because you know we are having this opioid war if you will and in substance abuse or workplace or you know me too that’s happening out there and some of it all could be contributed to mental health oh my goodness all at everything up to me everything contributes to it and as a part of it because you you can’t be unless you’re in a coma well even in a coma your mental health is important so it’s always there okay it’s like physical health it’s always there but in terms of topics that are trending and things I get asked to speak about on news shows and stuff like that are definitely the me2 movement narcissism that’s huge and in our personality disorders are huge always those are the shows that we get the most downloads about and then trauma because things like a personality disorder are born most likely of trauma and then you have the people that are become victims of people with personality disorders and many times someone who becomes a victim of that kind of behavior from someone is someone who also has experienced severe trauma so those are really that in things like bipolar disorder that’s more popular to talk about because it’s becoming less stigmatized it’s always been here always been here but it’s less talked about and then how those things like incorrectly diagnosed things like bipolar disorder and so on will lead people into addiction because they haven’t been properly diagnosed and treated and so they’ve been coping by themselves and they turn to substance use in order to manage that pain rather than you know having hit it early on and got you know into the right mode of treatment so those are those are what’s trending hmm let me ask you this this is just out of curiosity what’s the difference between personality disorder and bipolar disorder well bipolar disorder oh and I’m remember I’m not a clinician so forgive me to edit any counselor that’s listening in what I have learned from guess is that bipolar disorder can be genetic and it’s a chemical imbalance there are things not firing in the brain the right way and it’s that it’s also treatable with medication and therapy personality disorders there’s a lot of disagreement around them being a chemical imbalance there definitely is gray matter in different areas at the brain when you look at a pro-social psychopath like dr. Jim salan or you look at you know someone that doesn’t have it you know that Brett that brain but not chemical like bipolar not that’s the piece that seems to be different and also personality disorders many people are of the belief that those are really untreatable there they can be managed but the person with the personality disorder part of the disorder is they absolutely know that they don’t have a problem it’s not that they believe that they don’t have a problem is that they emphatically know they don’t have a problem and so how do you treat that and there’s disagreements about that but that that would be the two main differences okay when you talk about that that especially with the personality disorder you always hear after the fact that they had gotten off of their treatment right so they were just like I never really felt right when I was on it and now I’m off and I’d been off or I don’t know a couple of weeks a couple months and they have an episode you know talking about bipolar are you talking about personality disorders um I think it’s probably a combination of both I know that a more so personality disorder because if you felt like it’s in your definition you said that they don’t feel they have a an issue so you know they may do a lot of self treatment or when they get help they don’t feel that it’s long term well the way I would look at that is because it to me that sounds more like bipolar disorder what happens with that is people start to feel good because they’re taking their medication and so they think oh I don’t need I feel so good I don’t need this anymore and they don’t attribute the fact that they feel better and they feel like them selves finally they don’t attribute that necessarily to the medication and so they’ll go off of it and then they crash so that happens a lot with things like bipolar disorder with a personality disorder I’ve never heard ever a clinician the counselor neuroscientists would ever say that medication helped personality disorders have never heard those two things put in the same sentence hmm nothing thanks for that clarification yeah absolutely now I have heard them go to count it’s almost like those or it is like the grist of the meal for someone with let’s say narcissistic personalities that disorder is to cause as much chaos and drama as possible in other people’s lives because they get off on gaslighting people just to you know giving them an alternate reality that is that is complete fiction they get off on the herding of other people and bipolar disorder does not they people with that do not get off on hurting people to actually feel horrible when they’ve hurt people personality disorders get off on it does that make sense yeah that makes perfect right now when I am in marketing so you know we’re always looking at spend and how do I spend this right so or have a positive picture and brain tuck disorder disorder now sometimes I think that’s where you’re getting people that may shut down and and what I’ve seen in wreaths in recent months is the talk of anxiety and you know you I think it was Ryan Reynolds who’s just recently come out but he continuously has panic attacks the rock the same deal and Mariah Carey actually came out and said she had bipolar disorder but you think that they’re all rooted in anxiety or anxiety the symptom I think anxiety is a symptom I think you know you can certainly be genetically predisposed from what I have heard that to things like anxiety if it runs in your family but also that can be learned if that’s how if you didn’t have modelling on how to handle it it can be in a chemical imbalance there can be other things but to me the anxiety is sort of the symptom of something that’s happened either by oh you know within your body chemically or something related to trauma that happened to you and then anxiety is what blasts out you know as part of how you are coping with so either of those things or both of those things at the same time Kristen how how did it come about that you decided to create a mental health network you know radio show podcast because I somehow thought that starting another startup at the age of 47 was a good idea hope your entrepreneur we love it and I’m like okay this is my sixth and every single one of them takes more money than you realized and more time and you know what we’ll wake up like stop this is it and I feel like I may be involved in other things but this is my passion that’s taken me all this time to figure out this is what I want to do and I actually created the network out of guests on my show coming to me and saying hey we want a podcast we have no idea how to do it you know what you’re doing and I would go I do know will you create a network and my first response so we started a network in 2017 February of 2017 and I was my first response when I was asked this was are you kidding no I have a full-time gig at the consultant and technology and mental health I don’t want to deal with this no no it’s not going to happen but they would not give up and I created the network and I thought okay if I have five shows in production by August of 2017 no deaths or maim I’m sorry by the end of 2017 that’s a good marker of success and by August remember we started in February so by August of the same year we had 18 shows Wow and now we have between 50 to 70 I haven’t taken a look that are in the queue wanting to get started and it started out as individual podcasters coming to us advocates and now it’s expanded into behavioral health organizations conference venues and mental health places like McLean Hospital in Boston which is a huge world-renowned Harvard Medical School affiliate you know all these things that in psychiatry and psychology and they’re having us produce a podcast for them so I think my business knowledge helped me go after the right places and then the advocacy and the heart behind it is what helps me get people to be invested in the mission of this because no one joins that doesn’t have the heart of an advocate no one that’s just not possible this network is all about like getting as many voices out there as possible it’s you know financial compensation is wonderful and that’s an important part of life but that comes behind the advocacy and what we’re what were your other baby your other projects before that work well I was doing really well in technology consulting on software and mental health so I still get asked to do that every so often but I I only do it if it’s a huge project and helping vendors that have mental health software and before that I was in the CRM you probably know from marketing when a CRM is curved act yeah yep so I was an act certified consultant probably before y’all time but I was a salesforce.com consultant with my own company and sugar crm and you know blah blah blah blah blah and that’s what I did I would go into organizations like mental health organizations and I would work on their or you know big healthcare organizations Dell was a client at one point I would go in and look at what kind of database they were using to track their marketing and sales efforts and then we would build a custom solution using a CRM platform to you know make it go fast for them and I did that for a long a long time it had multiple companies doing that kind of work before I went in and went you know what I love volunteering in mental health and so why don’t I take what I love is a volunteer and put it to use in terms of business because if counselors doctors people that service this industry don’t have the right tools then they cannot do their jobs well and patients suffer so that was the reasoning by getting by switching and going into this profession full time and then that turned into well let’s podcast about about this whole topic you have the first iPhone or the first iPod or do you even use an iPod anymore I don’t I’m an Android person I know that’s horrible but I am an Android person but I did have the very first Palm Pilot I had the very first blackberry oh yeah well I only bring it up because you know steam in and I’m team Android too but the reason why I brought it up is because the job and I love them for same as he was always saying that he he doesn’t see failure he’s the Betties of failing forward you know and if you did it we we would still be walking around with the first iPod and so you’re like oh ah one more time you’re like no all of your experiences gave you what you needed to start this yeah absolutely it’s so cool to get to that place and it can happen at 22 it can happen at 47 it can happen at 72 you know it when it happens it’s wonderful no matter what age you are and sometimes it’s a consistent happening of deeper knowledge but it’s it’s really nice going to get to that place where you go okay so those weren’t mistakes those were missed steps mmm and everything that I’ve done now is starting to make sense so those even down to those jobs that I took where I was bullied me of all people stands up and you know confronts sexual abusers and Here I am you know being bullied in my 40s in a workplace environment by a sadistic personality disordered human being all of those things played a role into what I’m doing today because had I not had let’s say that experience with this person I would have never done my podcast I was so angry and upset and like what happened that it made me speak out again get back into being that advocate that I had kind of pushed to the side because I was busy working and having a family and all that stuff so even those painful situations I can look at and go oh that’s why that happened got it got it all makes sense we always say that there is no accident and though you know there is a school of thought that once you transition you know you’re looking to see you know bob-dad and other people but your best friends will be the person that really got under your skin in this life yeah I have a spiritual advisor that I work with who always says you know you know you signed up for that right with that person and they signed up for that with you so that you could both be propelled into the next growth mass I’m like whatever I don’t want to hear that today I’m just bad okay I’ll be benevolent tomorrow but today no [Laughter] I also like it is because you know not blow smoke but you are in a sense a beacon because of being such an advocate in the field of Technology that is usually male driven so you’re running ask what energy will women are coming across narcissistic behavior yes very true was it so funny I was interviewed by somebody I don’t remember who it was that it was on a new show and they were like well have you ever experienced you know that kind of behavior and I said well I know you don’t have my bio but I ran a tech company for over a decade and I’m and I’m a woman so what do you think not exactly a lot of godly I’m always with men even today I have most of the podcasters on my network or men I don’t it’s not I mean there are women too but I think because I I’m so comfortable working with men and I’ve worked out so many issues related to working with men and I know how to weed out very quickly okay this one ain’t going to work so I’m just going to go and work with this person it’s really quick there’s a you know very quick sign language now about it that that I don’t necessarily have as much of with women because women were not my peers when I was going in and consulting with Ross Perot you know his company before he sold it to Dell and that was those were my mentors because there just weren’t women around when I was being a CEO so I look forward to having more women you know around as colleagues now but it’s very different men and women I don’t care what people say there is a you know there’s definitely a difference women aren’t used to being top so we don’t were not as comfortable there as as men are and that plays out differently in how we can behave I’m grateful and my grateful that I got to be in tech as a female at the time that I did because I learned a lot I learned a lot about how to get ahead even when the entire deck is stacked against you Oh without being a you know a jerk hmm that’s a good point because you’re saying that yes there is another school of thought right that you have to wear the pantsuit and actually take on those personalities to get ahead and it sounds like you actually totally were successful even though you were bucking the system yeah I’ve always been like it you know just like now Here I am working in mental health I’m interviewing the you know so much pedigree and they look and they and they ask for me to interview them and and yet I don’t even have a degree so I’m that’s just kind of me and the way that I am and I do it without I’ve learned from the people that do have serious personality disorders that are successful because they can be extremely singularly focused that I don’t what I don’t want to be Idon’t a welcoming inclusive environment where people can help as many people as possible and if I you know invited personality to sorted people into that it would put a monkey wrench right into our into our healing environment because their goal is not necessarily to heal and that’s what ours is yeah Kristen can you um owl assistive or be sure sure I started doing that um gosh many years ago I mean at least eight or nine years ago maybe longer and I love dogs I’ve always just had the thing with dogs cats want me to die but dogs really and I think that they come from the from hell but dogs are wonderful and and they are receivers they just received dogs and horses or you know the these great receivers and so what I found yet another way that I got in sideways was I really wanted to work with mental health patients and no one was going to let me go and do that because I don’t have a degree and but I can walk in with a registered therapy dog and work with an entire group of psych patients in a lockdown unit and I’m welcome to the floor and I can do that you know as much as I want because I have this wonderful furry this lovable animal with me so it’s been a great way to see things from that view from how the how the providers handle care and what they’re using the handle care in terms of their technology and where they’re pulling their hair out and also see how the patients are being treated meaning me and along with the patients I’m not saying them patients as if there are other people but and also be able to sit there and go okay yes I’m here with my dog and I’m supposed to be the therapy dog person and I’m wondering if they have a bed for me and could I keep my dog when I check in here and working being able to go through you know a session and be like aha I’m in an anxiety attack right now and I’ve got to just get through it and everybody there understands because they’re going they’re there for that reason both mm so the whole thing a dog is just to bring in a common effect to the environment yes oh my gosh I’ve actually gone on big technology installed and a therapy dog with me for the day of implementation I’ve been asked to come into a conference room where counselors are angry at the state regulation person that’s talking about what they have to do yet another thing they have to do to do their job and they’ve asked me to come in and bring my dog because immediately everybody calms down and I think the biggest part of that is they bring so much joy because they just are about love I mean the you know the dog that’s designed to do this kind of work they’re just about love all they just want to give and they don’t see your your flaws like we do they just are there to help you know anyone with their healing so the best thing ever is to get a whole bunch of counselors on the floor in a circle telling them we’ll give you the sticky roll thing for your pants later because you are going to be furry after we go through this exercise and give them the patient experience by making them throw a ball to my dog or pass the ball around and watch my dog with us aboard them the border collie stare and and then have them laughing and shouting and then I go okay now any of you that were non-believers about animal assisted therapy helping people with mental health how do you feel right now do you feel really good and they’re like okay we get it yes we feel good and the thing is someone that’s steeped in their trauma their mental health issues all of that if you prove to them that feeling good is possible even if it’s for a minute you’ve helped them realize that it’s possible for longer than that amount of time and if a dog is a facilitator of making that happen fantastic yeah look like a cigarette scissor lassie smoke type of cigarettes yeah because dog usually take on a lot of energy from the people that are around how do they detox Oh gotcha gotcha gotcha okay well I kept them short I mean and miles is uh he was done after 45 minutes like that that was it and I just made sure that we left and we only did it once he got older we did it once a week he used to be able to do it a couple times a week working with kids and in behavioral health classrooms and working with adults so we just kept the time short because I it’s a load it’s a it’s in a load and also my nature is and some people that I’ve come up against would totally say that I’m full of it but my nature tends to be kind of calm energy and my dogs are a reflection of of that energy there your dog is a reflection of its owner typically and so the fact that we have four Border Collies that don’t chew they don’t really bark they listen they lay down and take naps and sleep when their Border Collies is is a reflection of you know kind of the chill that they’re around what did their owners you sound like the dog was 4gr yet was multiple choices of the dog the reader reflection on their owners that it’s true it’s true I mean I’ve even had a wonderful therapist two dogs were a nightmare and when you walked into her house they would start biting your fingertips and jumping and barking and I would sit down waiting for her patient to leave and you know and she would walk out and her dogs would do that for a minute but and I never told them no or I just my body language was I just didn’t invest any energy into the bad behavior or I didn’t even acknowledge them and I wasn’t trying to do that that’s just how I am I didn’t acknowledge them until they were calm and she would walk out and they’d all be laying on the floor at my feet and she’d be like what is it that you do yesterday they jumped out of my car on the freeway what is it that you do to them did you bring a drug and I was like no whoa all oh it’s you it’s you you got stuff that you need to work out and your animals are here to help you get to the root of it but you aren’t looking at it and so there’s your mirror right there in the form of a furry fuzzy creature do you partner with with local dog centers because I’m just seeing a lot of new research research but recent research with dogs helping you know all of our veterans coming back with PTSD and other mental disorders I don’t um I don’t do that because people will often think I’m a dog trainer and I’m not I yeah I’m not a dog trainer I’m I’m good with dogs and I’m especially good with my dogs but I mean I’m doing this other stuff so I never got into that aspect of it but I will get asked to come out and speak about animal assisted therapy and do a demonstration and also come out and talk about it at at an organization but when they start asking me can you train my dog I’m like that Cesar Millan and you need to watch his show because I can’t say that a Rottweiler that’s got severe issues wouldn’t also attack me so I don’t have his skill set and that’s because that’s what he wants to do I could if I wanted to do that because I think I have a natural ability for it but it’s not it doesn’t appeal to me to do that it’s um this is what appeals to me so and we actually have a show now on the network called the animal effect and it has a social worker Adam who was on the host of the show and it hasn’t started yet but he will be this year and he’ll be talking about he just greased and lost therapy around losing your pets and he does all kinds of amazing work in the field so I can’t talk about everything anymore because I don’t have time so it’s wonderful to have this network and be like ah Adam please interview these amazing people I wanted to ask you that about silos and I guess is probably more of a propellerhead talk but since you’re a technology person I think you’d appreciate like propellerhead otherwise you know what that is to be honest oh yeah I do I had to do a Google I know about I have to do a Google search I thought I heard clicking while we were talking but it was it looks ancient oh that was the old yeah my dog my dog was searching for it let me ask you from a technology standpoint you had if we go back about you know 20 years or so you had a you know we had this huge comm boom-and-bust yeah but it just introduced so many people to like Google and and iTunes and all that and at the time it was you know we can’t be evil and we’re all family kumbaya let’s hold hands well it didn’t maybe they grew up and they became silos and they got to keep you on their platform and with your with your podcast network it seems like it’s a good silo because for someone that’s looking specifically for mental health they have so much access as opposed to the mass podcast Platt platanus fear if you will like that not mascara got to be a show that should be its own show platanus fear and it’s another analogy in mental health I love that you guys want to host another show anyway how things happen that’s right every do I see that yes I do I think that it was it was a it was a brilliant idea I’m not going to brag about oh it was well-executed because that remains to be seen with what I’m doing but think that it helped that I had all this business experience and I mean I was in and out of so many I was a consultant so I had 300 clients before the recession I was in and out of so many businesses working with CEOs so I got all this knowledge about how you run a business well and how you don’t and how do you deal with staff well and how just all this stuff and how technology plays a role in all of it and so when I thought okay we’re going to do this project network about mental health there was half of me saying no one cares this is going to fail epically but do it anyway and then there was a part of me that was like you know what this could possibly be a brilliant thing because look at what’s happened mental health is now I started this old venture and have all this content and did a podcast before they were popular and now all of a sudden mental health and podcasting are the hip things and I’m way ahead of the game there so it could be brilliant or it could be redonkulous who knows but I feel like it was a good a good move and the business stuff that I learned is what helped me go oh that smells good I’m going to go in that direction I think that just from my feedback I think that’s what I like about your site because I it is in certain areas of mental health that I can actually kind of drill deep and when yeah right and you were seeing that would you see your experience you run it to more men and for women that may grow if they say okay but if I go down this Lane this is women centric and then they’ll probably be more open yeah yeah absolutely um I think mental health you know it’s the wonderful thing about it is that it doesn’t matter what your sex is it doesn’t matter what your religious beliefs it doesn’t matter what your sexual preference is it doesn’t matter if you come from Mars I mean it’s you know and if there is a Martian that wants to be interviewed about mental health that you’re so welcome on my show but it’s it’s wonderfully inclusive and it’s welcome to men to come and be vulnerable which is not necessarily a strong suit that men are known for and it’s welcome for women to be encouraged in their vulnerability that they do have more comfort with so it’s just a nice space for everybody to feel welcome and get in touch with themselves and be in a safe environment to do so and I don’t I shows come to me I can have an idea about a show and oh I want think I want to add one that’s about financial things to do with mental health and so on but I don’t go actively seeking that out it always comes to me just like I didn’t ever think of monetizing my podcast I never thought of doing in network those things showed up at my doorstep and sponsors came to me and said can we do commercial on your show and pay you and I was like what is freaking AMA so it’s it’s the most organic thing that I’ve ever been a part of and most of the reason why it’s been able to grow I think is because I just have learned how to get the heck out of my own way you know I mean really like there are dust in the corners of my website and that’s okay it’s really okay yeah Krista I want to ask you um this is in regards to addiction and I know someone that’s been struggling with addiction for the past 25 years give or take and anyone through a stretch of like five years where he was fine alright cleaning and whatnot and then he had a big event that was getting ready to come up kind of like a reunion type thing and another that he was getting ready to go to and just right before that he just crashed and burned and I was having a conversation with a cousin of mine who used to have some addiction problems but he’s gotten his life together and he told me he thought you know what I’m not surprised at all that always happens but addicts right and sort of something big and their life’s about to happen BAM they crash and burn and I was like really he’s like yeah because I’ve done it myself so I was just want to ask you about that have you seen a lot of that oh gosh yes and it’s not just you know people that have substance use disorders that’s you know that’s that’s called self-sabotage in one respect a lot of it can do with you know your self esteem and and also just your boat being rocked because part of the life of sobriety for people that struggle with substance use disorders is maintaining order maintaining you know we don’t drink every day we go to meetings I mean that’s about every person’s experience but that’s a lot of it is about maintaining this emotional centeredness and in order to live this peaceful life where you don’t you know go seek out substances and so on and then you have something like a big event come up and all these fears and stuff that you’ve had about yourself do deserve this it’s kind of you know derails you like it does anyone and your go-to place is where it was in the past which is to a substance and that that’s where you seek out relief from or to hide out in and also it can be chemical to where your body is still you know chemically predisposed to wanting a substance so there’s a lot that goes into it but that makes absolute sense and people that aren’t addicted to substances do that too they just do it in different ways oh yes I completely blew me away when I and I said pulls cool good for there’s a five-year stretch in there right for this big thing you just crack I’m like wow how does that happen and that’s something I think that we you know as an industry we need to pay more attention to and people that are in the industry do pay attention to it but people need to know that outside of behavioral health and mental health because the support that someone can get to help them not reach out for substances or that if they do they’re not on they’re not there very long comes with awareness of the people around them their support system knowing ah there’s an event that’s coming up this may just be a trigger for this person and so I’m going to provide extra support and be around them more and not be ashamed inducing and all of that to support them to know that they can get through this without going to their go-to place or that if they do go to their go-to place that I’m going to be there to catch them so that they don’t stay there very long yeah well you know all of it is about knowledge and awareness when people know better they tend to do better so I think that’s why things like mental health and substance use or so are such trending topics it’s not because it’s new it’s cuz it’s always been there and we’re just in a safer place to have these discussions um yeah and and really get out of our shame and all those all these stereotypes and I mean you know look at the me to stuff that’s going on he couldn’t if I had had that work experience that I had now I would have named names and I would have felt okay about doing so but it happened before this and so I talked all about it on my podcast and was just shy of outing the person that’s done this to me and many many women you know I would have been I would have felt like oh I’ll be supported in in talking about this we’re at the time I was not supported and mostly by the women that I was working mm-hmm so that was that was really difficult it was like wow are you kidding he does this to you too but you’re saying that this is my fault happy in your and you’re believing him like are you kidding me so it’s it’s a wonderful thing to have awareness and have people feel like I can step forward and then we have to wade through some of the stuff where people are unfairly attacked and you know all that we’ve been a way through that now but that pendulum will swing back and our new normal will be that that kind of stuff just isn’t even part of our consciousness anymore because we worked through it hmm so I just gave you an example of a story of someone that I knew that had been you know clean for five years and the 30 years been kind of involved in all this have what’s the longest you ever seen anyone be you know clean or and and then they kind of fell off the wagon oh I’ve seen people you know known people that have been you know without substance usage for decades you know that maybe they accepted a sobriety lifestyle in their 20s and then in their 70s when many of their friends are passing away and they are suffering a huge amount of loss in their lives that they don’t know how to process or there’s not adequate support for them and then they start drinking again in their 70s after obviously a long time of of living a sober life so it’s you know that that happens it just like someone who self sabotages with sexual you know acting out can be married and they don’t do that and there you have 30 years above a bla and then they get divorced and all of a sudden boom that was their go-to play and now they’re acting out again so it’s part of the human condition really it really is and I think that people that are struggle with addiction are just get such a bad rap they’re so stigmatized it’s like they’re you know they’re purposely trying to be awful and that is not the case you know most of the time if at all instead of that lack of understanding and then you add shame on top of it and boy who wants to speak up and say I’m an addict and in that kind of an environment yeah yeah I can imagine you watch our have you heard of the TV show elementary yes I haven’t I think I’ve watched one episode but remind me of the premise of it yeah it kind of goes to what you and David we’re talking about with substance abuse so it’s a cop show elementary Holmes and Watson type of deal okay you know so he has these Smart’s he’s working with the police he’s busting people but he keeps having these bouts with with with heroin and you’re in know I think it’s addressing the stigma like you said that it may association with abuse is probably you know one section of society and it’s like no it’s all walk like all walk of life that people are affected listen I just interviewed these two amazing men that are firefighters one’s a captain and I think actually maybe they’re both captains in San Diego California and they talked about their mental health struggles and addiction struggles that they see and I thought it was so fascinating to hear them share their story and talk about you know what you know why it’s now being taken seriously because it’s happening everywhere it’s because it’s in now affluent neighborhoods it’s not just in the bad neighborhood it’s everywhere like we used to go on calls and we knew that if this part of town was where something was happening we knew how to prepare for that and now it’s it doesn’t matter where it is it could be in bel-air or it could be in Compton and the situation can be horrible in either place so now we just have to be on guard it’s not in bel-air Oh someone got a kitten stuck in a tree no it’s mother of three has od’d and I don’t even I won’t even say what happened to the baby she was holding I mean it’s horrible and so it’s the whole idea of oh it’s only in bad neighborhoods is ridiculous and most of this was created out of pushing pain medication on people and then taking it away in the wrong way so we created a bunch of people addicted my ex-husband being one of them I mean he was thrown pain medication because he was captain of football and hockey and blah blah blah blah so he was a team and they’re like be a man just get out there and play play on a broken ankle for an entire basketball game you’re the star here’s the bunch of pills and so I married an addict and I had no freaking clue and I can’t even tell you the drama bankruptcy infidelity emotional trial you know just on and on and on and at the end of the day it wasn’t his fault ya know there’s yeah he has to be accountable for his behavior as do i but a team being thrown pain meds yeah he got addicted and his body chemistry changed and that affected his entire life and whose fault is that you know the team is it the same dude do we tell children who’ve been molested by Catholic priests which I did an interview with with some of the reporters the spotlight team at the Boston Globe about you know that whole outbreak were those children responsible for being molested and then having substance use disorders later in life dealing with the trauma no they were not yeah what about argument for addictive behavior like it was just brought out of them but it was a loose doormat you mean with some like the Catholic priests as an example or with no no do you want to touch that ones it does balance let the whole letter show yeah it’s a whole other show but if you’re saying like for addiction or addictive behavior like I’m addicted to working out I’m addicted to you know I’m addicted to whatever it’s like well you know do you go and you have like again it’s probably more clinicians that are like oh well this happened from 8:6 and you know it’s just more of you seeking attention or seeking love ultimately and this is why your self sabotaging or acting out like is that explored as well or more I mean is there a way to look at thanks preventively yeah absolutely I think it just is my personal opinion based on what’s worked for me because I have an addictive personality if I did not have an addictive personality or addictive tendencies I would not be a workaholic that’s my biggest a holic it Trump’s your line at Trump’s food work and that’s where I escaped into and I turned it into something really wonderful you know later in life so do I is it a bad thing mmm you know that’s one of those again a chicken and the egg thing but if I’m using that analogy correctly but I don’t have Google in front of me to check before I think about our mouth but I think that you know we we there are some people that don’t have that personality type or don’t have that tendency and good for them but I also know and I world renowned psychiatrist that’s on my show every week has written a hundred books most of them bestsellers darka Paul Meyer has said with substance use disorder and people that have bipolar disorder he said this on many shows once they’re leveled out in their sobriety or their medication management or whatever are the brightest most impactful creative things in the world and it’s that off that drive that can be labeled as addiction when you’re not carefully monitoring it it’s that drive that gets gets them doing those amazing things so you know a lot of people say oh I don’t want to take medication because it ruins my creativity and what I say about that is well then you’re not on the right medication because medication does not need to stifle your drive and your creativity it actually can enhance those things because you’re operating as you with things in balance instead of you trying to live life with a mood disorder and addiction tendencies unassisted and trying to handle that along with how stressful life already is yeah yeah [Applause] any other questions David no I think I figured y’all have cauliflower ear because once I get going I can’t stop talking clearly I’m sorry I think it’s just grabbing as you probably know as a podcaster that the hour flies by I mean were just like oh my goodness yeah if we’re we have to go listen you did kind of give us that that 10,000 foot view yes you know what had happened you know 20 years ago plus maybe he showed us you know what’s happening today and I’d like to ask you a crystal ball question FMA sure so my crystal ball question is you know there’s I guess good and bad and everything and so those wonders and social media there’s wonders of having all this technology and information at our fingertips some of the bad that it’s slowly coming out is the narcissism of not of just being so like you mentioned earlier singularly focused on one thing you’re not having that human interaction all right so I’m hearing a lot of a social anxiety disorder and I wanted to get your take as to the future of mental health in that regard well luckily I met amazing young man he was 22 when I met him he’s 23 now and he does the podcast our network called the social networking effect and it’s all about social media and its effect on mental health and he’s been doing this for seven years and nobody would listen I think I was one of the first people that went oh my gosh you are a freaking genius please come and be a podcaster on my network we’ve got to get this information out and the we’re seeing the effects of it now I think one of you had mentioned you know in the beginning it was oh we’re kind of like hippies it’s all competes in love and kumbaya and now we’re like oh right now we see where it’s been taken and we’re seeing the negative impact so my hope would be that the field would accept Jonathan Bertram’s verbage around you know a social media disorder or social media usage disorder those kinds of things I hope that they that becomes part of the diagnostic manual the DSM and that that’s treated and treated well in you know in the mental health community that would be my hope and then crystal ball I could see that happening and I could also see happening that people become more discerning about their social media usage I know I have and use it as a tool that spreads awareness advocacy help you know all those things that it can be used for good it’s like the force it can be good and it can be evil and the crystal ball would be let’s evolve now that we know what we’re dealing with here and we know that it is actually changing the brain chemistry of people and that it is doing you know causing more social anxiety and there’s an even bigger epidemic of knittin rampant narcissism and so on now that we know this great let’s do something good with it and let’s use these platforms for what they originally were intended for I don’t care what anybody says I do not believe that Mark Zuckerberg went out is that his name markers at Jeff mark okay Jesus edit anyway cuz I should know that but anyway that mr. Zuckerberg went intentionally created Facebook in order to mess with our minds I’m sure he has oh this is working listen and maybe you didn’t think totally because we just didn’t have the data to know but I’m sure he did not sit down and I don’t I just can’t imagine that he’s a diabolical psychopath that did this to infect everyone and hopefully you know organizations will do the great thing in this and and put in steps and things like that to make it what it was originally intended to be connection you know not just not disconnection you’ve used in the right way it saves lives yeah also absolutely and that’s actually a good way to end it where can they get more information that know about your network and getting in touch with you and everything you have to offer or if people like to type they can put in mental health news Radio Network comm and that’ll give you a list of all of our shows or social media and everything and if you don’t like to type you can go to MH n our network comm and it’ll take you to the same place awesome if you if you haven’t heard of it since we were talking about social media there’s a documentary called we live in public are you familiar with that No please share look at that yes it came out and I think 2006 2007 and since we know about the dot-com era they were showing how the dot-com era predicted where we are today as far as social media and dopamine and endorphins washes and all that and it was just tapping into human behavior but as a mental health person or than being in industry I think you would appreciate it yeah I will I will watch that I’m surprised I hadn’t heard about it I’ll ask one of our other podcasters that does the happy brain podcast she’s all about our happy horn you know our happy hormones and chemicals in our brain dopamine and oxytocin and serotonin and she predicted all this – well you had just been in tune to another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective this is Hamza and I’m David and Kristen it was a pleasure let’s definitely stay in touch absolutely thank you gentlemen yes thank you listen to intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective on radio public it’s a free easy-to-use app that helps listeners like you find and support shows like ours when you listen to our show on radio public we receive direct financial support every time you hear an episode experience our show and radio public today by listening to the show link in our episode notes and thank you for listening thanks again for checking out another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeless perspective podcast please check us out on our website at intrinsic motivation dot life where you can click on the speak pipe button and leave any suggestions for a future podcast that you’d like us to cover also check us out on our social media sites we have a YouTube channel Facebook page iTunes podcast in addition to stitcher and Google Play all under intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective check you out next time have a great day you