Benefits Of Quitting Porn – Quitting Alcohol And Porn (Withdrawals & Benefits)

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Video Transcript

welcome to intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective podcast where we meet experts from all walks of life to learn their intrinsic motivations so that they can share it with the world what do we have a store today stay tuned to find out more [Music] good morning good evening good afternoon everybody out there in podcast land this is another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective this is Hamza and I am David and today we are visited by Joshua Shea and really interested in talking with him during our podcast we always talk about hello moments of where what happened in your life that was totally different from the direction you were going and I guess Josh would be no different so he was 15 years and in his profession former magazine publisher he actually started getting a case of political Fame in his City in Maine as well and something happened where I let him tell his story but we’re going to talk a little bit about overcoming porn which isn’t really talked about so much so that Josh has even written a book about it the name of the book is the addiction nobody will talk about how I let my pornography addiction hurt people and destroy relationships without further ado like to welcome just to the podcast thank you very much for having me on today I appreciate it well thank you yeah thanks for coming on and didn’t know if I did enough justice for the intro but yeah I mean talk about a 360 let’s go ahead and jump right in because I’m sure David has a million questions as do i and our g5i so if you could tell us a little bit about yourself in your background and then we’ll get to the nitty-gritty yeah yeah let me give you the dime-store tour my name is Joshua Shea I was born and have lived most of my life in central Maine when I was a teenager I began my addictions to both pornography and alcohol for a variety of reasons that we can ultimately get into but I did a very good job hiding my addictions for years and years and years almost 20 year here more than 20 years one of the ways that I hid my addictions was to overachieve really kind of run from who I was run from the pain stress anxiety I had in my life in being an overachiever I ultimately ended up as the publisher for one of my largest largest magazine I launched one of Maine’s largest film festivals that actually got a lot of national attention and as you mentioned I became a politician I was on my City Council in my city here all of these things were really about me running from myself that me hiding who I really was not just from other people but from myself I also in my 20 was diagnosed with bipolar disorder which helped explain what I thought was a lot of my problems through my teenage years fast forward to me being 35 36 years old my businesses are start failing or start showing signs of weakness my magazine was on a run of five years of doing amazing business and I’m not a great businessman I’m a writer I’m an editor when you have a lot of money coming through the door you can hide the fact you’re not good at doing business when you don’t have a lot of money coming through the door you can’t so the stress started building up I wasn’t sure what to do and I made a horrible mistake I pulled myself off of my bipolar medication believing that I could tap into my manic side I would have you know a crazy amount of energy I would have you know be super creative and I’d figure out a way to save my companies unfortunately what ended up happening was that my alcohol use and my porn use which were already on the increase absolutely exploded and I started drinking multiple times a day I started spending a lot more time with pornography usually very late in the evening after my wife and kids had gone to bed and and things escalated on both sides it got to the point with the pornography where I made the jump from just looking at videos online chat rooms and talking with women encouraging them to take their clothes off and perform different sexual things on themselves did this for several months and then one morning in March of 2014 I answered the door and it was the Maine State Police and they let me know in not so many words that one of the women that I spoke with in a chat room four or five months earlier was actually a teenage girl and at that moment there you know you talked about your big moment at that moment my life ceased to exist as I knew it and everything everything changed that moment thankfully it’s a good story for the next two years between the time of my arrest and the time of being sentenced and I did serve six months in early 2016 those two years I went to two different rehabs one for alcohol one for sex addiction and I did a ton of one-on-one therapy I researched the crap out of the subject I did group therapy 12-step groups I still do a lot of that today and I’ve really taken my when I was in jail I wrote this book because I met so many people who they thought drugs were their problem or alcohol was their problem they didn’t really look at their sex life because most people don’t recognize sex or porn can be addictive and they absolutely can and doing the research the numbers are absolutely astounding about how the internet especially is affecting a younger generation so I made the decision to once I got out of jail to finish writing my book get it published and now what I try to do is use my story which is shown vividly in that book and I do presentations to schools churches I do shows like this trying to tell people through my story just how real porn addiction can be and you what we’re facing as a country and as a world if we don’t start talking about the fact that this is a very dangerous addiction did you Wow yeah talk about and that’s the nutshell version yeah I’m sure well we have to save some for the movie of course though yeah exactly I before I get started I do want to ask you I I have a big subscription with audible and so I had come across this book called the butterfly effect and according to thought it was you know the are you familiar with that book yes yes okay I haven’t read it you know it yeah it was it was just it was it was great and hopefully some pops here you know maybe it’ll give you some additional information but yeah it’s just it’s not talked about and and you can find yourself in situations like you had and hopefully you know what do you spreading your story then people will get to hear this and then have some clues or have some ideas of signs that they may be exhibiting or loved ones may be exhibiting so that they can get some some assistance before you know they don’t have to go through what you had gone through but in that book that butterfly effect they were talking about life before and before the internet and then life after the internet and one thing that I thought that was really interesting with with regards to porn addiction they were show stance that of late teenagers early 20s that were not even engaging in sex with you know what with girls at all they were so into the illusion of what was happening on the web that no girl can really compare it they were enough in a bubble and as a result they were there were large numbers population of this demographic not even having children were not even expressing the desire to even be with another person due to what they were experiencing on the Internet and one of the things that I speak with a lot of doctors and therapists who see people in these situations and I’m working on another book with a couple professionals and some of the stories I’ve been hearing and they’re seeing more and more patients 18 to 25 who they could have the most beautiful girlfriend on earth who is the nicest smartest funniest person on earth and unless they put pornography on television or on their laptop they can’t actually have sex and finish with the person they are incapable of just having traditional intercourse with their girlfriend with their wife they are hardwired to need to be looking at pornography that’s where this is heading with some people you know how before you buy a car you don’t really know anything you’ve done some preliminary research and then when you buy it you see it all over the place and as you had shared that example it reminded me of I watched Bill Maher from time to time and he was talking about like 40-somethings or 50 self you know married with children and they were in the same boat like they couldn’t really they could be with the most beautiful woman but they needed that catalyst to get things to get things going I want to back up for a second because for if we can have some parallels I mean you’re educating me as well and potentially some date some stuff David may or may or may not know but usually when you look at drug addiction or alcoholism you look at gateways right so if we look at I guess I’m telling my age but if you look at like what’s-her-name Nancy Reagan right they were like these are gateway drugs if you start out with the gateway drug it’ll open you up into you know the harder drugs down the line going and looking back do you you you kind of talked about it and you’re in your intro but do you think that I guess the question that I have is some of it is just curiosity because every boy kind of goes through what I’m about to talk about but then you have the extreme of actually what you had gone through at the end so is there a pattern that you’ve seen in your research um well what you have to do is recognize what is recreational use and what is addictive use an addictive use can in talking with most addicts myself included I can tell you that the first time I ever saw true hardcore pornography the same thing happened in my mind that happened the first time that I ever actually got drunk I discovered something I felt all of a sudden that I had the solution to my problems this made me feel like a better person this didn’t stress me out this didn’t there was just something about this thing be it pornography or alcohol that that took care of the problems that were deep inside of me now I also can say that I can go to a casino drop 50 bucks and walk away no problem when I was in my 20s there were plenty of times that I smoked weed and let it go no problem you know there are substances I’m gonna I have an addictive personality there are some substances that I really latched on to and some but I haven’t I much like alcohol or anything else I think most people can look at porn in a very healthy way because they’re not using it in the same way that I did or that other addicts do or for the same reasons that addicts do so you know it’s really on a case-by-case person-to-person basis you talk about like Nancy Reagan I remember watching Diff’rent Strokes and seeing her on there so probably showing my age I think that I have friends who smoked weed with me at the very beginning and I didn’t get hooked on it and you know they dried they died of drug use ten years later it was a gateway for them so you know you can you can say things that you know is is you know though some of those HBO or Netflix shows that have lots of sex remember those gateways to porn I’m sure for some people they are the thing is these people have something going on inside of them that they’re having to deal with and they just happened upon porn or drugs or gambling or food or whatever it is to quell that problem recreational users don’t need that it’s scratched the way that addicts do mmm interesting so yeah interesting point I had a question in there just just flowed out of my mind um well it’ll come back to me go ahead yeah I guess you have them stuck on that one so so Josh let me ask you about since we since you had that you caught on to that different strokes and Nancy Reagan you remember Atari and if yes I remember ugly episode oh yes yes yes Gary it’s one of the top viewed actual video on you’d like to that is that has scarred every kid who ever saw it absolutely absolutely so around that same time with I’m thinking a video I’m going to use a video game reference do you remember Atari and ColecoVision yeah absolutely I had an Atari 2600 Oh fantastic fantastic okay so yeah I guess since I told you that you’re probably gonna know where I’m going with this so anyway we had Atari it was the best thing since sliced bread and then colecovision you know there were some iterations like in television or whatever but the Cleveland came out and people through Atari away right and so if I tell my nieces and nephews about ColecoVision they laughed me out of a room based off of the technology they have today right and so there was this natural progression where like 50s and 60s they would hit at a sex scene right and they would you know fade to black and then they’d wake up the next morning and have breakfast and then you know you had the pork teas in the 872 80s where you saw a little front action and then it was just like how do we keep pushing the envelope and now it’s in a state where there’s such decent Asian because the envelope how much farther how much further can you push the envelope right is that where you think some of the things you’re always chasing aha not really because I’m not I don’t think people are desensitized I think you’re just seeing more of it out there because it sells it makes money I don’t think we’re desensitized to sex at all you know there were certain societal standards and mores back in the 40s and 50s that wouldn’t allow that kind of stuff those have changed and evolved over the years as they have through history where times of you know Roman orgies or you know the nude paintings of the the Renaissance era you know those are times that sexuality and nudity were higher and they go lower and it’s a natural progression I don’t think that we’re ever going to become desensitized over sex and if it is going to happen it’s going to be an evolutionary thing over thousands of years you’re not going to change the chemistry of people in 25 years based on what they watch on TV yeah all right well here’s another one so it in it just had a profound effect so I’d love for me to come back in the future we could talk about the butterfly fly after you listen to it but at any rate rate if we go a generation ago maybe our generation and I had a crush on a girl and were in second grade or third grade or whatever and I kissed her right all right that was probably the N and I may have gotten like a slap on the wrist and what in 2018 or at least in that book last year you know this another kid he was I don’t know 10 11 12 he did something similar and he got slapped with a we call it a sex crime with the underage child so child porn or child pornography right and so they his family had to move and with all the apps and all that you know where you have to register as an offender so he’s already ostracized before he is an adult and this is going to follow him for his whole life whereas a generation ago it could have been a learning experience yeah I agree with you because I mean I I myself Akane I’m on the sexual offender registry and I do not minimize my crime at all I you know deserve to do time for it I’m on the registry but I’m on the registry directly next to a guy who you know raped three children where I you know encouraged a teenager – you know masturbate online now in my opinion and the opinion of most people I talked to those are two very different crimes they’re both crimes but they’re very different yet he and I are side by side on the sex offender registry because our last names are close to each other and there is no registry for people who sell drugs to little kids you can you know beat the crap out of a little kid you don’t end up on you know this will this list I think there are a lot of prot I don’t think that a list is necessarily a bad idea but I think that what we need to do is look at some other countries like New Zealand which they rate their criminals basically you know like a stop like you know red green and yellow as far as risk of offending and how long they end up staying on the list ninety ninety percent in Maine of people on the list are there for life and even that 10% who were only on for ten years would the way the internet works these days so so you’re on the list ten years you’re on the internet forever and it’s not like you can run away from this crime that was one of the things that actually pushed me to talk about this and to and to make my story public is that it’s already out there you can go google my name and you’ll find every sort of little detail of what happened you know I you can’t run from this and it just did I will I will always have trouble getting a loan moving forward I will always have trouble renting an apartment moving forward there were a lot of cities and states that actually have rules about how close that I could live to a school or a church something like that even though the science does not prove anything about that people are not using good sense not using science and they are overreacting because they don’t know anything about this you know something like gross sexual assault versus looking at pornography are as different as night and day can looking at pornography be a gateway to those things probably so can I so can a lot of things but I’m on the same list with that guy and I think that we need to look at how sex offenders are treated you mentioned that kid I don’t know that specific story but you hear all kinds the 19 year old who has the 15 year old girlfriend that the father doesn’t like it he ends up on the list because they had consensual sex you know or the the guy who’s drunk and cuts through a park on the way home and you know takes it takes a leak too close to a playground you know and ends up on that kind of list I think that we’re very reactionary when it comes to how we punish and handle sex offenders and hopefully over the next decade or two science and common sense will start to play a role in how those laws are better or shake mm-hmm so Joshua let me ask and this is obviously a hindsight question but let’s say let’s just take away the internet period just didn’t exist you think we’re sitting here talking right now no absolutely not yeah absolutely not so I can see ok the alcohol drinking is stuff I’ve know people that have had issues with drinking okay I get that but yeah I’m just saying how much that’s really factor or speed up things if you’re able to put it this way if you go and you sit in the bar you know six hours a day every day do you think you might develop an alcohol problem yeah you’re probably probably much more than the person who never steps into the bar well most people didn’t have unfettered access to pornography prior to the internet you know our generation we had to go to a video store but we had to go to 7-eleven and hope that the person behind the counter was being lenient that day to get our porn these kids don’t have to go through the kind of stuff we had to do and it’s not a production you can literally see any kind of pornography that you want if you know how to spell it and hit the word and hit enter so to to to think that the internet isn’t a the the massive catalyst towards hurting a younger generation is silly and you look at the you look at the statistics there’s a pretty harsh cutoff at 35 years old and lower and then there’s another pretty harsh cutoff right around 55 60 years old because that middle group were we’re in we didn’t grow up with the internet but we learned how to use it that youngest group they don’t remember a world before the internet and the numbers you know they don’t lie they show that this is just getting worse the younger you deal with people oh I have a two-part question with that one Josh so one we talked about that that you had mentioned 18 to 25 year olds right and in in their addiction and how its affect their relationships however we we also talked about which you before now usually happen naturally you were in high school you may have been a senior your girlfriend was a sophomore or freshman what have you do you think that unconsciously that the people that age were like hey I don’t even want to be involved in any type of litigious situation so I’ll deal with it in other ways and yeah what do you think about yeah I mean III remember myself being a teenager and I was so wrapped up with other stuffs and you know III don’t think there’s any actual mm you know actions and consequences don’t go hand in hand with being a teenager okay yeah I’m just thinking about as far as a guy right we I mean a lot of what guys do or for girls especially at that time right like you’re you’re if you’re wearing a Letterman’s jacket being an athlete or in a band or something like that you know some of our some of our intentions were for the opposite sex so I was just wondering what you’re seeing I guess that’s mine that with the second part of my question so what kind of conversation do you have with your children now about because they’re in that group yeah well first what I’ll say is you know those people who are teenagers who become porn addicts at 16 17 18 you know addiction is a disease you and I know a lot it starts as a disease of choice much like smoking and lung disease or you know eating crappy food and heart disease but addiction addiction is a disease because it does change your brain chemistry so I think that those you know 17 and 18 year olds who are preferring porn to the real thing they’ve already started to do damage to their to their minds and whoa I’m sorry wasn’t the last part of your question so what kind of conversation do you have with the boys or you have a point I have a boy I have I have a son and a daughter and I you know my daughter was 13 years old I believed when I was arrested my son would have been eight or nine and we are very like I wouldn’t know what the word would be but I guess would be we’re we’re open with sexuality in that we don’t judge we don’t treat it as a bad thing well you know we let the kids know that it’s completely natural and we try not we try to make a safe place and a safe space and and reserve judgment now my daughter of course feels much more comfortable going to my wife and talking about that kind of stuff my son feels much more comfortable my daughter is now 18 my son is 14 they you know go to the parent of the same gender and we can have open discussions what I think that I missed and that I now understand and that you know I I tell parents when I’m doing some of these presentations is that I think we need to start taking the subject of pornography and treating it the way that we treat a lot of the things we teach our kids as they grow up you know when you’re young when the kids young five six years old you just tell them don’t drink beer if you see beer or wine laying all right you don’t drink it you know tell mommy or daddy well all you have to and the child generally will do that exact thing because kids want direction kids want to know the difference between right and wrong at that age if you if you happen to be using the computer or your iPad and you see pictures of naked people you know just let mommy and daddy know you probably shouldn’t be looking at those and leave it at that because the thing if a five-year-old doesn’t know what porn is a five-year-old is not going to get worked up the way a 15 year old or a 21 year old would get worked up you just have to introduce it that is the way that you introduce not drinking or not using drugs or looking both ways before you cross the street you know when they turn 10 or 11 maybe you have a bit of a deeper conversation as you would about sexuality or as you would about you know peer pressure and and some of the things that they’ll face you know coming in middle school or high school you make you make the discussion age-appropriate but I think parents need to start tossing pornography and pornography awareness into some of those little lessons they teach kids along the way absolutely this is the last plug for the book because you do read it and I didn’t write it I don’t have any association with it but I think it a proposed for what we’re talking about so as you’re mentioned as a parent you want to have more control of what your children have access to and in this instance they were talking about there was a woman and she was I don’t know in real estate or insurance or something and then the market crashed right in like 2008 2009 she couldn’t find a job and she found she started doing like am work right and she started making some decent money whatever she had a daughter and her daughter was a high school age and kids right they share stuff and they found her mom on the canned site so that’s how the girl found out about it right and then the parents had to talk about it but she thought she was sheltering her child from what she was doing well they don’t have a picture all right well it’s interesting you bring that up because I was actually talking to my therapist the other day in a session about this where you know six or seven years ago she would have a girl come in to her to see her because of the trauma associated with the fact that she took a dirty photo of herself and it you know moved around the high school or even you know moving around the workplace and what trauma that was and how that was so rare and how you know she can’t believe she did that she’s not that kind of person and these days it’s almost as if you expect you know somebody who’s 19 years old to be doing that it’s become completely normal and you know I and my therapist thing she doesn’t see people like that anymore because there’s 10 million pictures you know 10 million naked selfies on the Internet you’re just one of 10 million and if somebody finds out oh well everybody else does it you know you’re not you’re not ostracize or it’s it’s not a scarlet letter that you did this anymore and maybe we need to move back to a time where it was you know I’m a progressive person but I don’t think that you know everybody having this out there on the internet or some people have this out there on the Internet even if it doesn’t have negative effects on your professional you know or personal life it’s probably still something you don’t want out there in the long run mmm for sure so I watched this TV show Lucifer kind of a guilty pleasure and on the show they you know there’s a cop show right I mean what show isn’t now but anyway they had they thought the killer was at the rehab like somebody had relapsed and they had died of an overdose so they go to the rehab facility and one of the guys who they thought was a suspect was in there and he was like he said he was in there the guy that died had a opioid addiction and the guy that they thought was a suspect he had porn addiction he’s like man I’m just in here for porn addiction right like it’s nothing serious you know I kind of do this as a vacation but these other guys are hardcore and you’ve gone to rehab for both is that kind of the same sentiment that porn addiction isn’t as serious as the others uh well you know what the the sentiment seems to be when I was in without my first place it felt like the people who were or specially if they were younger I mean this really is a bit of a younger thing people in their early 20s it seems like those who were hooked on heroin dark dawn mash thought that some of us who were older and it was alcohol that you know we were we were taking up their space you know this wasn’t well you know you can – who cares if you’re an alcoholic you know big deal it’s beer you can go get at 7-eleven you know heroin is a real major big deal and what I had to do is explain to them that you know oh yeah and I’m thankful that I never needed heroin or meth to to be my thing but that’s only because alcohol did it for me if alcohol didn’t do it for me I probably would have moved on to other things and really comparing them and saying one person’s addiction is you know easier or worse you know that’s that’s that that’s comparing apples and oranges you know I tried to explain to this kid I said yeah I understand that heroin you know will wreck your body much faster than alcohol will and it will it can kill you in an instant where alcohol really doesn’t but when you go to a restaurant they don’t ask if you want to see the heroin menu when you show up they ask if you want to see the wine menu you know I can’t get I can’t get away from my addictive substance I’ve only actually seen heroin in real life twice in my life so it’s easy for me to stay away from Aaron you know your heroin user try to stay away from alcohol just because it’s not your problem you’re gonna start to recognize how with alcohol is everywhere when it came to the sex side of things that place was a little bit different in that place while they did have people with drug and alcohol problems they did have a pretty robust sex addiction program which included the porn addiction they also had a pretty robust eating disorder program and what I found there was that I actually became closer with the eating disorder residents more than almost anybody else because with with an eating disorder it’s much like sex or porn addiction you actually have to figure out how to have a healthy relationship with it with heroin or alcohol the idea is that you abstain 100% you can’t abstain from eating you can’t abstain from sexuality that’s not healthy either you know there was there was a woman who was at this rehab who was actually what’s known as a sexually anorexic and that she was absolutely scared to death of sex didn’t want anybody touch her didn’t want anything to do with it whatsoever and she was one of the biggest messes that was there because she was completely non-sexual or she wanted to be sexual but she health-wise couldn’t so I think that you know when somebody says I’m only here for sex addiction what that sounds like if someone who’s not getting treated for sex addiction someone who’s still in denial someone who’s trying to minimize their problem because you know it’s sex addiction like every other addiction or you know it can tear families apart it can ruin lives you know it can put you in jail it can make you bankrupt they can do all kinds of horrible things so you know I try not to judge addiction by the addiction or you know by the severity of of how I interpret how do the how somebody is doing mmm you made a distinction between for an addiction and sex addiction that if you could talk about on the surface they I would group them together but there is obviously some some difference well yeah and one of the big problems is that behavioral addictions have not been studied nearly as much as substance addictions over the last 20-30 years if you look at the dsm and that’s basically the manual that mental health officials or mental health specialists use in diagnosis there’s only one behavioral addiction in there and that’s gambling addiction and that was only added about four years ago so they’re still doing studies they’re still researching what is called sexual compulsive addiction and figuring out what that really means now having gone through these groups and met a hundred different types of people what I think should happen is that there should be what’s known as basically sexually obsessive addiction and underneath that are different areas one of them would be intercourse addiction and I think when people say sex addiction they start to think intercourse addiction but that’s only really one aspect of it I think another aspect would be porn addiction where I fall and then there are there is another aspect as well there are people who are into exhibitionism or into voyeurism and that is a type of sex addiction they may not touch anybody they may not even want to watch anybody it may you know manifest itself in another way when I was in my rehab there was a former NBA player there and now it’s not gonna give me a names but you know he went off into retirement quietly but he ultimately was asked to leave the team because he kept getting caught masturbating in his truck in the parking lot because he had a problem he had an addiction to masturbation that nothing to do with porn it had nothing to do with hooking up with other people it was just a form of this like what I think should be overall you know a a sexually obsessive addiction labo that can manifest itself in many ways much like drug addiction there are you know a hundred different drugs you can get addicted to so Joshua that is real quick in during any time that you’re in rehab or any of your research is there and you don’t see there any statistics about because when you think what I think it was like sex addiction or partition I think basically men but obviously there’s probably there’s women out there too so the in your research were there any statistics as far as the percentages of men and or women yeah absolutely there’s there’s a lot out there what’s actually you know I guess known I don’t say nice but this has been studied now for five six years so researchers who have been doing longer type research we’re getting a lot of the results now they’re coming every month we’re getting new statistics on things a couple of us the scary ones are if you look at the 18 to 35 group right now 18 to 35 year olds one out of three men have reported that they believe they have either an addiction to or a severe problem with pornography that’s one out of three when it comes to women that number is twenty one percent so that’s one out of five women between 18 and 35 who feel like they have a pornography issue one of the things that’s interesting about women is that women tend to take their addiction those who are addicted tend to take their addiction to the next level far more women actually act out upon their addiction and go find a partner and take it to a next level outside of the pornography and into actual you know intercourse far more than men do and you know they’re they’re still studying why but that that’s that’s you know an interesting thing and just about two weeks ago a report came out from a couple of Canadian researchers they studied not porn addiction but the role that porn plays in marriage and a couple of the really out there statistics again looking at they interviewed mostly 18 to 35 year olds Half Men half women and what they found was out of in the last six months 98% of married men have looked at porn and that age group 98% and if you go just back one month 80% have looked at pornography if you flip it over to the women’s side it’s about 65 percent who have looked at pornography in the last six months and it’s about 25% who will look at it in the last month and that’s not saying that they’re addicted that’s just saying that they utilize pornography one of the other things that came out of that study was that for those who reported that they felt like they were developing problems with pornography there was a direct correlation between feeling like they were out of control and didn’t have the kind of marriage that they wanted and where was this conducted this was this was done by a couple of Canadian researchers two Canadian researchers and one from USC out in California over three years they interviewed just over a thousand people half men and women most in the 18 to 35 year old age group just about how porn was used within marriage and if there were any effects that they found and those people who didn’t use porn often seemed generally to be happier feel like they’re more in control feel more fulfilled with their overall lives and those who used a lot of porn didn’t now is it it’s a chicken and egg thing did the porn lead to the other stuff or did the other stuff leave to the born you know that’s still up for interpretation so I would I would want to guess with that but these are the numbers that they reported and I think that’s one of the things that we need to start talking about is these you know hard and fast statistics and you know discussions that we can have we can interpret these and see what’s and figure out what they mean as long as we know what these numbers are out there that’s that those are the discussions that I’m trying to prompt you know being out there doing these shows meeting groups of people we need to start talking about porn addiction in our society because I believe that if I would have I would like to believe that if I would have known more about this if I would have truly understood that it was even an addiction because after my arrest I still didn’t think I had a problem with pornography I thought I had a problem with drinking it took me about six months after coming back from rehab for alcoholism of pretty intense therapy in a lot of research and reading about it to accept the fact that I had a porn addiction you know it was so far off my radar and I know how far off the radar it is for most people and that’s why you know III think we really need to start talking about this and that’s why I asked for verification because when you said Canada that was a trigger for me because I know just watching some documentaries with Michael Moore and he talks about it from my awareness outside of the United States and the one example was violent and so we have a I mean every time you turn on television there is violence and there’s that desensitized to it because it’s so prevalent and outside the US it’s more of a balance news they talk about sex right so that’s part of the conversation they also don’t have that drinking problem as well because you know children are or early teens are introduced to alcohol versus well you know that’s actually that’s actually an urban myth you look at the statistics you’re gonna find most of that’s not actually true the the alcoholism rates in places like France or Italy where we’re led to believe that kids are drinking wine at nine years old well they’re not drinking wine at nine years old if you look at most households and their alcoholic rates are right up there with ours oh good what about on the section from the little that’s out there it’s actually kind of funny the the best statistics about pornography use outside of the US actually come from pornhub.com well you know and and III don’t want out what I’m giving you know my speeches in my presentations I don’t take a moral stand on pornography I’m a big believer in individual liberty i if you think porn is disgusting and gross great if you think everybody should have access to it make their own decisions great I don’t really get into that debate but I will say pornhub.com does a better job reporting how people are using internet pornography in this day and age that any researcher I have ever seen out there and I promise I’m going to go back on my promise okay I got to plug the book one more time the reason why I have to plug it in because of pornhub pornhub was at the center of that research and just because of the access that people were getting and as a response I think that point hub had to you know they felt that social responsibility to do some of that research and put it out there so it’s great that you even reference that yeah I mean every they do with the last four or five years usually the first week of January they must have some hardcore statisticians working there because they break it down by country they break it down by search term they break it down by duration they talk about how things have changed from year to year they don’t draw any conclusions necessarily probably not great for their business model but it’s obvious that more and more people are looking at pornography for longer amounts of time and that it’s actually growing faster among women than it is among men and I think some of it was because of add revenue right so where they can actually post the act one person that or a group that I had gotten in trouble was Ashley Madison there were a lot of before the hack there were a lot of Ashley Madison ads on and pornhub based off of whatever the search query was and said right you know they were consistently working their algorithm to go around that so I do want to pivot just a little bit because that’s about a week ago that Mariah Carey have come out and mentioned that she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and there are a lot of people that are suffering in silence I do want to shed a little bit of light of your discovery and and what you could share with bipolar disorder yeah I mean I can I you know from a young age knew something else was going on with me then most kids around me and I’m sure most kids feel that way you know as you’re going through puberty and navigating the difficulties of you know forming relationships and you know are you going off to college and the teen years aren’t fun and were there too much fun and you pay for it later but I knew something was different about me and I couldn’t put my finger on it I had a very close friend who was killed when I was 20 years old that concent me completely into a tailspin and basically my parents dragged me to a therapist I eventually opened up to him and after six eight months I was diagnosed with a generalized anxiety disorder and depression they put me on some meds which helped greatly but every year for about a month I would get pretty depressed the rest of the time I was I thought I was fine what I didn’t recognize was the rest of the time I was completely manic you know I always told the guy I only need to sleep three four hours a night and I always had completely boundless energy and you know at last call when people are dragging themselves out of the bar I want to go back to my place and continue the party whether you’re with me or not and I didn’t care about you know spending money that’s a credit cards before and you know it was it was it was a it was an existence that was fast and fun and frenetic and energetic and my therapist actually never figured out that I was bipolar it wasn’t until you know I’d go see my regular primary care physician and at this point I’d started to get some jobs in local media and was building a little bit of a name for myself around here and he started asking he’s like you know I’m reading about the things you’re doing and the things you say and you know what’s going I say should have and I know you’re being treated for depression because do you feel depressed I said no I rarely ever feel depressed and he said I want you to look at this and he gave me a pamphlet about bipolar disorder and I looked at the symptoms of mania that I’d never never seen this before and it was like oh my lord you know seven of these ten things describe me perfectly and he said you know I think you may have bipolar disorder so me being me you know I went and I researched the the crap out of it I met a couple people who had bipolar disorder and it was so clear that’s what my issue was my issue wasn’t just depression it wasn’t the generalized anxiety disorder my issue was bipolar because I could be up on top of the world you know I I think that I can do anything and I’m convinced I can do anything and I’m gonna show you I can do anything I think it was it was that kind of mania that drove me you know as far as I went professionally but there were also times where I was so depressed I would call in to work and you know or I would just know show different things because I could not get myself up off of the couch it was physically impossible I would you know basically be in tears all day long III it was it was like I said it was like night and day now when I got on these pills it took a little while to figure out the right cocktail but I ultimately found that baseline and it was very clear that you know bipolar disorder was the problem now – without that I was probably I think I was 25 at that time in the next 10 years there were two or three times that I pulled myself off my meds that’s something that bipolar people tend to do stupidly but tend to do it because you go 3-4 years without any real episodes you start to think that you don’t need to take those pills in the morning you don’t need to take those pills at night because you feel like everybody else you you seem like you feel like everybody else you act like everybody else you know you’re not having those incidents that you did in the past I would take myself off of them within a month or two I am short tempered irrational making crazy decisions not thinking about consequences and ultimately have some kind of crash and have to admit that I need to go back on these pills and that’s I believe while I take full responsibility for not maintaining my mental health and that’s my fault I truly believe the biggest mitigating factor that led to my downfall with the with the porn addiction was that I pulled myself off of my medication believing that my manic side would help when I never got manic I just got more and more depressed mm-hmm and thanks for sharing that that’s a really good point you hear that a lot about comedians that you know once they get on meds they’re not as funny anymore right so yeah my livelihood should I take it or not well but I once said to still to one of my professionals who was prescribing me drugs pretty early on once I started settling down and finding that baseline I said you know I got to tell you I don’t understand why you’re giving me these pills what you need to do is give the rest of you pills to bring me up to where I am because I’m able I’m going full-speed 20 hours a day I can have two full-time jobs and still have a good social life and recreational life because I’m not stopping I’m just going I’m going full-bore the problem is you get like 17 good hours and then hours 18 19 and 20 you start making some weird decisions and start doing some weird stuff you know that that’s why they don’t give people meds to make them manic but but exactly it’s like it’s like a comedian you do lose something of an edge you do lose some kind of spontaneity you do lose what you think is a bit of a spark and I and I now know you don’t that’s you know rationalizing that that’s you know just just because you can’t write as funny as you used to that has nothing to do with the bipolar disorder just because you know I’m not pushing my professional life as hard as I used to as another do the bipolar disorder that’s a convenient excuse but it’s very easy to make the mistake thinking that that the bipolar disorder actually helped in the mania helped because it’s nostalgia you remember back you remember the times that were great you remember you know when you’re flying you don’t quite as remember when you’re laying in the bathtub in your clothes and the showers on and you know you’re crying and you don’t know what to do those are the times you wipe from your mind you remember the good ones and you people tend to think of their mania as a good thing which is absolutely faulty thinking and what led me to where I ended up there’s so many similar themes right when you like even when you talk about drug addiction it starts out like like you’re saying you’re remembering that first time and you’re trying to chase that moment but you never can reach again well here’s the thing is that a lot of people don’t always recognize a lot of people don’t want to get on meds when they have bipolar disorder bipolar disorder while it technically is classified as a mental health condition it’s it’s a provable physical condition you know it’s about your neurons not firing the way that they’re supposed to that’s a physical problem the symptoms are that of a mental health problem their researchers are actually starting to push the idea that bipolar disorder should be classified in the same family with things like dementia and Alzheimer’s disease because of what happens to the neurons and brain misfiring it’s very similar between those kinds of degenerative diseases that you get with later age and bipolar disorder and people you know just seem to like to use bipolar as a as a punchline rather than really understand what it is well Pharma hasn’t helped that either the commercials are if you’re starting to feel suicidal after taking these pills and stop taking them right well anything this way and I was you know try to preface this when I give a presentation anybody who tells you that isn’t your your doctor that you should be on different pills or different medication or have a different treatment way or anybody who tells you that you don’t have an addiction that things aren’t as bad as you think they are they have an agenda you know other people have an agenda with your health it can be my mother still won’t admit most of my problems because I think that would then put some kind of guilt on her shoulders that she had something to do with it so I’m almost not allowed to talk about a lot of my issues around my mom because her agenda is one where she has to keep it clean you talk about you know a lot of these porn sites and a lot of these adult film companies they’re actually now funding studies to find where they can you know hopefully prove that porn addiction isn’t real that pornography doesn’t lead to bad things well why are they doing this because they have a financial interest so whatever you’re told something like this I always hope you would be very leery of where you’re getting your information and what their agenda and what their motivation is for their message oh absolutely and if we talk about gateway from the other end of the spectrum if you can talk about some steps that someone that’s listening to this or they may identify somebody what are some steps that they can do to get help they may think immediately I should go to therapy but you know that’s kind of crawl before you walk what are some steps they can take before going to therapy well somebody who believes they have an addiction what they really should do you know take take a look at how something is affecting your life and and what are the negatives because addiction really difference between you know overusing recreationally and addiction is how the behavior is affecting your life you know is is the substance replacing things you used to do with pornography for instance would you rather stay at home and look at porn that go with your friends which used to do that kind of stuff is are you staying up all night looking at porn so when you get to work the next day you’re kind of useless are you spending more money on porn than you have in the past that’s actually negative effect negative affecting your regular life addiction really comes with consequences I think also comes with a lot of promises to yourself you know I’m not gonna look at porn tonight I’m not gonna drink tonight I’m not gonna bet on the baseball game tonight and then you you truly want to not do it but then you you’re pulled like a magnet and you have to do it and then when it’s over you make promises to yourself you’re not going to do this again you promise but next time it potentially is even worse and it escalates and then you know you have to get more and more shit that shows you do have some kind of addiction and at that point if you’re starting to change your brain chemistry and you truly think you have an addiction they go to the therapist immediately try to make that appointment so somebody with some professional training can start to put you in the right direction if that scares you a little bit before you hit a therapist in a 12-step group you know go to Alcoholics Anonymous go to a Narcotics Anonymous there are sex addicts anonymous sexaholics Anonymous there’s Overeaters Anonymous gamblers nos you name it there’s that there’s a 12-step group for it and what you can do is just go there sit in the back of the room don’t say a word and listen to other people’s stories and you’ll probably recognize you’re not alone with what’s happening to you you’ll find people who will also show you what happens if you continue down the road that you’re on and you’ll also find people who can show you that recovery is possible and you know when you get to sometimes a critical stage in addiction usually you’re well aware you’re an addict by that point I know that if I had not gone to inpatient rehab far away from where I lived completely detached from everything that was regular in my life with all new people I don’t think I would have been able to be as successful as I was I needed all of that detachment to really face things so there are many ways you can go with it but if you feel like you have any issue with addiction don’t ignore it because addictions only get worse they don’t get better until you figure out tools they can move from place to place you may you know a gambling addict one year and then an alcoholic the next year but that little gene of addiction doesn’t change and that’s why addiction is addiction is addiction is addiction yes there are certain addictions like drugs that will have greater physical ramifications with you but what’s happening in your brain when it comes to the dopamine and when it comes to the serotonin is exactly the same you’re feeding that little that little devil in your head that’s the disease and that is exactly what happens no matter what the what the addiction is Wow those some great feedback and some great lessons learned and places to go and another thing that we haven’t mentioned of where to go is to find out where they can find out about the addiction nobody will talk about how I let my for nog rafi addiction hurt my hurt people and destroy relationships you can let people know where they can pick that up and your website and in your social media yeah absolutely I urge people as they’re interested in my book the book itself I know I’ve been throwing around a lot of statistics here but my book is not about statistics my book isn’t really even a self-help book my book was designed to do two things one is to show the average person who maybe has a stereotype in their head about what a porn addict is that that’s not true porn addicts are not all creepy 19 year old guys in their mom’s basement who have never kissed a girl in real life you know I was a very you know well schooled professional well-loved in my community and I hid this forever I have met men women young old fats in every color race religion you can find can be a can be a porn addict so that’s part of the reason of the book the second reason of the book was to show anybody who might have a porn addiction hopefully for it to be a bit of a mirror for them so they can recognize their self in my story and then they can see how far my story went and hopefully get some help before they go down the roads that I went down you can find the book on my website it is recovering porn addict calm that’s recovering porn addict calm on my site you can buy the book but you can also read a lot about my recovery the book is about going downhill and hitting rock bottom my website is more about hope more about recovery and if you do feel like you have any issues with porn addiction there are a lot of resources on my site that can lead you to different directions to get help so I urge even if you don’t want to buy the book come check out the site we’re covering porn addict calm and you’ll learn a lot more than then you will just with the book fantastic fantastic yeah just been in tuned to another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective this is Honda and I am Damian and Joshua it was a pleasure man let’s definitely stay in touch we’d love to have you back please and thank you so much for giving me this time you’re doing a great service letting people know about this this problem yes absolutely man thanks again man take care thank you [Music] listen to intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective on radio public it’s a free easy-to-use app that helps listeners like you find and support shows like ours when you listen to our show on radio public we receive direct financial support every time you hear an episode experience our show and radio public today by listening to the show link in our episode notes and thank you for listening thanks again for checking out another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeless perspective podcast please check us out on our website at intrinsic motivation dot life where you can click on the speak pipe button and leave any suggestions for a future podcast that you’d like us to cover also check us out on our social media sites we have a YouTube channel Facebook page iTunes podcast in addition to stitcher and Google Play all under intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective check you out next time have a great day you