Characteristics Of A Good Relationship – The Book Of You With Dr. Sarah Brown

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Video Transcript

welcome to intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective podcast where we meet experts from all walks of life to learn their intrinsic motivations so that they can share it with the world what do we have in store today stay tuned to find out more [Music] good morning good even good after buddy out there in podcast land this is intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective I am Hamza and I am David today folks I am actually going to post this podcast on our fan fan cloud account in iTunes today because it is Green Day and it is the Super Bowl and my Eagles are going to be there and first and foremost I have to say I’m happy regardless of the outcome I guess I have to say that and I with you on that one logs as we’ve been there in the left hand we were there and we played the Patriots and law so I am really excited about it so today is actually a good day for me because I like to live every day to the fullest and if I had a perfect day it would include our podcast guest today we have Sarah brown on and she is the author of the book of you and she’s going to tell us about relationships and all the beautiful things going on in her life what I’m really excited about is her TED talk and she talked about what my job taught me about finding a romantic partner so without further ado I like to welcome Sarah to the podcast thank you it’s great to be here can we go now you you are my best friend because you actually echoed my my sentiment with the green eagle what’s your what’s your take on a Super Bowl today oh well I’m going for the underdogs but I’m with you I’m just so happy that they’re in the game that the regardless of the outcome is going to be fine yeah yeah so so you were I actually resonate a lot with your background and what have you and I think many people that listen to the podcast or a lot of people that have had a corporate association or identity and then you know how to use that experience to branch on to other realms and you’ve had extensive experience with author Andersen I mean author Andersen consulting I mean Accenture right you going to be so many changes with even the Accenture umbrella I’d like to have you spend some time about your experience in the corporate world during that time during the time of it Accenture yeah well I actually got to Accenture through a very large IT outsourcing deal that was done between the pond and Computer Sciences Corporation CSC and what was then Andersen consulting and the the deal has been eclipsed many times since then but at the time in 1997 it was the largest outsourcing deal that had ever been done so it was history-making and it was a big big change and I was really excited to join Accenture because my background is in organization development that my doctorate is in a field called psycho-educational processes which is combination of group psychology and adult learning and I was doing a lot of change management work in the pot at the time but when I looked across and saw all the talent in Accenture then Andersen consulting I was really excited about joining them and it turned out to be everything that I thought it was going to be but then as you said there was a great big change that occurred just a few years after that it was less than four years after I joined the company there was a big separation between the accounting side of the business and the consulting side of the business and that’s when Accenture came into being and I became a part of that organization and that was a tumultuous but it was exciting and it turned out to be really good for the consult besides the business very like laughing because you said tumultuous and at the time at night I mean I guess we can always say that being hindsight being 20/20 but at the time it was just so I just remember my order compart compadres they would come back to school when they were Anderson or author Anderson and then you know when they broke up a big eight and you had Anderson consulting and then you know my my error was going a lot of people going to etc some people are still there in the consulting arm so it’s just really interesting speaking with anyone that had that experience because they don’t just hire anyone so that’s the volume is about your expertise oh well thank you said it’s a it’s a great intense culture and it was a really good experience for me so organizational development what does that mean actually it takes on different different guises depending on the the situation but it has to do with how you work a straight change within a large organization and the way I was practicing it and where most of my expertise lay was in designing the change and making sure everybody was ready for the way technology was going to impact the way people work so I would work on the front end of very large IT projects helping to redesign the processes to train the employees that would be using the technology differently and to make sure that everybody that was impacted by the change was ready for that change to a car now I like I’m one of those people that I usually don’t like watching things twice but one of the things that I really enjoy watching is the old Seinfeld episodes and they had an episode just the other day where James Harry had missed out on some inflammation it because he didn’t have email and he’s like I gotta get on the internet in the year of 97 right over 2018 so we could kind of laugh at it but I’ll bring it up because you know with your expertise in organizational development and orchestrating change and the korkin environment is a lot different today than it was back then what are the similarities and how have we transformed commendably from 1997 well you know it’s interesting that you bring up that topic of email when I did my dissertation in the early 1990s it’s when email was just coming on the scene in a big way and my dissertation topic was actually how email was changing the decision-making culture within organizations and it branched out a little bit into how technology was impacting organizations and what it was doing was is it was allowing people to to make decisions and to interact from afar much more so than they had ever done in the past they didn’t have to be face to face and so they were learning how do we do things like sense where people what people are actually saying how do we actually bring groups together so that in a sense is still what happens when you introduce new technologies people are learning how to do that a little bit differently but the big change in the 1990s was how people were learning how to do it from afar without actually looking at each other eyeball to eyeball yeah just I mean if you think about it you that time you still had to physically go to a desktop just in that email it’s kind of important that though exactly exactly I had one of the very first cell phones or mobile phones and it was bigger than a shoebox so it was hardly mobile and it weighed a ton but but that was our first our verse overture into quote mobile technologies and it wasn’t really all that easy so things have gotten a lot lighter it’s a lot easier to move and we’re much more we’re much more comfortable I think these days dealing with people from afar and picking up on cues that we can’t always see it’s interesting because we have now in the workplace we have move there’s a reason why mapping these look into the relationship part but you know you have three in essence generations working in an environment now you have a baby boomers Generation X you have Millennials and they all view communication differently case in point I just recently watched the Denzel Washington movie Roman Israel Esquire have you seen that no I haven’t mmm it’s a I’m a Denzel fan so you know I’ve got of course I’m going to have a bias but the reason why I bring it up is he’s a even attorney but he’s more of an old-school attorney and something happens where his business partner you know he transitions and so denzel’s are still working in the background and he you know he gets into this environment where people are like did you answer my email and he’s like people expect an immediate response from somebody sending an email and to the other person I was questioning about it yes I sent you an email expecting a response and he’s a you know a baby boomer so he’s like I’ll get to it when I get to it yeah you know I bring it up for business and we’ll get to the relationship part but the reason why I bring that up is I was recently at a networking event it surprised and so I was talking to this young lady and she was talking about her boyfriend and her boys she was upset and she is she is a nonfiction was a generation Xer so I don’t want to say she was you know totally demanding but she was really up to saying that he was more responsive and in greater communication with his job than he was with her he would tell the job he’s going to be late you know or I’m in a meeting or you know in for her she felt kind of left out of the cold because he wasn’t as responsive to her and with your background I’m just wondering if your a lot of overlap or any difference between a person’s professional life in their in their personal life occasionally I do and occasionally their patterns I don’t think it’s there I don’t think there are any general generalities that we can draw from that a lot has to do with the difference between somebody’s usual style or their strengths and their needs as typically what I see is that you see more interaction with needs in a romantic relationship than you do with strengths or or typical style you see more of that at work and those two things although they typically are measuring the same behavior they can be different so just because I follow a very strong rigorous schedule at work doesn’t mean that I’m going to do it at home because my need is entirely different so that’s where I see the difference is is that an individual’s knees typically play out more at home because they’re more comfortable and they’re looking to regenerate and get their needs met and at work very typically working from the they’re socialized usual behavior their strength that where they’ve learned how to be successful another case in point is my husband is typically in the workplace in his profession he is viewed as the Energizer Bunny he is always on the go he’s always doing things he is he’s really moving at a rapid clip when he gets home he shuts down and that’s because his need for pace of actions is radically different than the way he usually behaved and so what people are often surprised as is when they ask us what we did over a weekend and I say nothing they say how can he do that and I said well that’s his need and so it just plays in to his knee which is playing out in an which he’s more comfortable than his usual his usual style I’m so excited to talk to you Sarah I don’t want to take over the whole hours I like the X we have David jump in right now while we’re going to ask whether the lightbulb go off that you realize this this relationship between you know what people needed and when they were looking for jobs and what they were looking for relationships how did that come about it actually came about when I met my husband I what he was putting me through a very rigorous process and I didn’t like it much and it’s actually the the story that I tell in my TEDx talk Oh so and it hit me in that moment when he was putting me through that process that the process of finding and screaming for romantic partner is very much like the process of screening for a job and I started thinking about the questions that are most frequently asked during a job interview so that I could prepare myself for this process he was putting me through you realize I could be asking the questions the same as anybody else so the first question that an employer always asks is is why you want this job and what they’re looking for is to figure out if you have interests and or passions but mostly interests that align with their so that you’ll be happy on the job happier the employee is less likely they are to leave so if you look at your interest and your partner’s interest you can figure out do we have enough that we can do together that we’re going to be happy spending time together because we both like the same kinds of activities and if we don’t can we carve out time separately so that each of us can spend time on our respective interests the second question that an employer asks is why do you think you’ll be successful on the job and what they’re looking for in that case is is do you have the skills and the strength behaviors to actually be successful and the corollary in a relationship is this will you get to use your strengths rather than having to always operate from a position of something that is not in your wheelhouse and the example that I usually give on that is what a colleague of mine Dan Perryman taught me about it’s a Star Trek analogy the difference between mr. Spock and Captain Kirk mr. Spock is all facts no fiction just give me what I need to know to solve the problem on the other end of the spectrum is Captain Kirk who is warm and empathetic and can listen to anybody neither one is right or wrong it depends upon the situation and it depends in a relationship around what your partner is looking for whether they want to interact with somebody who is back tuna fish fiction like a mr. Spock or whether they need somebody who’s just listening to them like a Captain Kirk and everybody is different so what you want to be something when you’re screening for a partner is how much do I tend to operate one way or the other and am I going to be is my partner going to be comfortable with that so that I don’t have to flex too much out of my comfort zone the other part of that question has to do with relationship skills and this is something another thing employers want to know is do you know how to get along do you know how to deal with differences and the interesting thing about that is it’s a learner bull still so and that’s what I am really working on is helping people understand what those differences are and how they can craft the rules for what I call fighting bear so that they can deal effectively with those differences the third question an employer always asks is is why do you think you’ll fit into our organization and what they want to know is are your needs going to be compatible with the culture of the organization and are your strengths going to be not create stress for their employees and you want to know the same thing in a relationship you want to know will your partner’s strength behaviors meet your needs do you know enough about what your needs are that you can ask for what you want so I realized just in that process that we could more effectively screen for a partner by using that job interviewing guide as a template for how we go about it Wow oxygen I realize I really highly highly suggest that people check out what my job taught me about finding our romantic partners it’s a great TED talk less than 15 minutes and if you’re like me and watch it in 2x you can see it in less than 10 minutes so highly highly recommended and I want to bring this up because a woman said it so I don’t get hate mail later because I asked this question so the woman a friend of mine she had mentioned you were talking about your husband and his needs and what happens like during the weekend what have you and she said you know through her she and her husband’s relationship they identified that and this is a huge generalization I gotta throw a lot of asterisks on it so so anyway she was saying that if we were to look at ourselves as computers men have maybe 5,000 words that they say per day and after they use that 5,000 they’re pretty much done when it has to be 10 to 15,000 words but they say per day and then maybe they’re done so if they both go to work and a guy uses that potentially that 5,000 words during the day he depleted he really has to recharge until the next day he can’t contribute in the home life I wanted to get your take on that their echo what you said about that’s a huge generalization there’s an i for one m in the 5,000 word category if I’m at work and I’m doing a lot of talking when I get home the last thing I want to do is talk this hog grow so I think it’s it’s more it’s more personalized than we think it is and it did make me think of whatever your profession is also I know I’ve known that in my personal experience I’ve had conversations with both personally and professionally with other women that may be in sales or if they’re on the phone all day and if either of those two variables exist then they really don’t want to talk outside of outside of work yeah yeah well I do think it’s more personalized then and we think it is yeah the other other question I had because you were asking about another well the first part is going not push back because I think you and I kind of have the same ilk and that it was easy for you to to make the parallels between work lights and personal lives hence the job the job interview aspect I’d like for you to talk a little bit about it your TED talk when was it I mean I know the answer but when was it and do you see that extend like this today because some of the technologies that was used back then we have a plethora thing that can overcome that today um I think you’re asking when was the story that I told about all my TEDx hot yeah yeah I met my husband in 1994 okay so it was and and I kind of make a joke about it because we actually met through a personal ad which was the precursor to a lot of the dating sites that are available today it was a similar type process in 1994 it was still relatively new as a way to to meet partners and your your site the second part of your question was is what has changed today and I think what has changed today and it’s one of the reasons I was asked to give this TEDx talk is that technology is available today to help us develop insights at that we could not do as easily in 1994 when I originally met my husband so there are tools available today to help us explore those differences and the business world has known about it for years the business world has been using tools they haven’t always been automated but if they’ve been using teamwork tools for years and years and they since have become more automated and online and that’s happening for in the personal sphere as well is these tools are becoming available that helped us to develop insights about ourselves and our partners and to explore the differences and the way we can manage those differences in a more creative way my personal experience is sometimes I would potentially get yelled at for being mr. quote/unquote mr. Davis right and I say that to say if I look at it from a business standpoint it’s a win-win right that’s a definite vernacular business right how can both sides win but there’s no emote or it can perceive that that’s mechanical no emotion into it you’re not this isn’t a business meeting and a little bit of how you’re your approach that resonates with me is if we have a positive outcomes and we both win yeah but that may not be the case I think that you help people get on the same page whereas sometimes if they don’t have that same makeup in that beginning job interview then when those issues come up it kind of shows that you didn’t go through the initial tools before you guys started getting together would you what’s your take on that the the principle that I use for helping couples fight fair is is that each partner is entitled to pursue his or her interests in some way and to get his or her needs met and the creative process is around figuring out how you do that to the so that each party wins in that area the difference in the business world and the reason that what I’m advocating is not as pure transactional as it is in the business world is the business world is looking at more tangible products and more tangible outcomes like how does each side maximize their financial return for example and sell them do we hear discussions about what do you need what do you emotionally need so it’s much more it’s much more tangible in the business world but the principle is the same that we want each side to get what to have a win and by creatively looking at interests and needs I think that it is possible that each side can get a win yeah absolutely absolutely and it kind of what I’ve seen and I wanted to get your opinion on this as well is and I think we’re going through another shift with you know all of the headlines with workplace harassment what have you there are a lot and it’s always been frowned upon with you know HR really stepping in but it seems like there has always been an increase of workplace romance just because they identify all of these points from the tangible and tangible conflict resolution of varying interests and passions and you spend a lot of time with this person versus the person that you actually live with and what’s your take on the current environment and what are some steps that we can take to move past the turmoil that’s going on right now on so you broke up several times and that so let me make sure I got the question correctly you’re talking about what are some steps that we can take to move on in the workplace yes okay well I think the the important thing to do to move on and in the workplace is to understand that each individual in the workplace has a unique set of interests strengths and needs and the needs are often hidden and so the workplace in general can openly advocate for helping an individual pursue his or her interest and use his or her strengths but the individual has to be responsible for getting the needs met because they are typically they’re typically not available and visible to to the the rest of the organization and so they need to know what it is that they need and they need to be able to ask for it in a creative fashion so for example if there are individuals that thrive on an incredible amount of teamwork and group interaction and they actually get energized by it and there are those who do it and can do it well but they don’t get energized by it and they actually need a substantial amount of time alone I happen to be one of those in that category so recognizing that that individual needs to find ways to ask for a certain amount of time alone or in the company of one or two people so that that need can get met and they don’t burn out I had that situation at Accenture because we are a global organization I could find myself on group conference calls from 6 o’clock in the morning until 10 o’clock at night and and I had to realize that that was not how I was going to get my needs met and when my needs aren’t met I’m going to not going to give the best to the organization so I had to look at how I could get team members to cover me on some of those calls so I could actually cut down on how much that that I am I was having to do so those are the creative things an individuals need to do to get their needs met and that goes beyond just basic respect I’m I think everybody is entitled to basic respect and everyone needs to step up when basic respect is not being adhered to and say this is not basic respect and I need a little more of that I need some support from the organization to get it and I think the other thing like you were saying if your needs are met at work then you’re going to be happy at home as well and with the market being the way it is there’s greater confidence and what-have-you there are loosening of purse string so you know hiring is in full bloom lease in early February 2018 and this is in an environment where in the past couple of years it wasn’t like that so people were pretty much taking jobs that they could get maybe for Less pay or they’re working longer than are usually working for just because they had to and I’d like to compare that environment of what you were seeing with your book because your impetus was working at Accenture there were people you know on my standpoint people wanted to work there right but you found people that were working there but they figured out they were actually in the wrong place they weren’t they were miserable there so what what are some things that we could do as far as the self analysis to get into something that we actually like well the very best thing to do is to get very much in touch with your interests the day to day activities you love to do your strengths behaviors and the best way to get in touch with that is to ask somebody else what are my strengths and your environmental needs your motivational needs what is it you need in the environment so that you thrive and I always tell people before you jump into a new job or try to start a new career see if you can’t get those things taking care in the job that you’re in find small adjustments like the ones that I make just getting off those rooftops calls made a huge impact on my degree of satisfaction and my and my efficacy actually on the job so you start there you start getting very clear about what your interest drinks and needs are make the small changes on the job and then and only then do you start looking at what a change might be that would be a better match and there are lots of ways to go about finding all matches that are better just telling your friends just the age-old thing about networking here’s what I think I’m interested in here here’s what I’m good at and here’s what I need what ideas come to mind when you think about a job that embodies all of that so you can get good ideas from your networks and your friends there are very good tools out there now on that that do matching of your personality with the kinds of careers that people with personalities like yours have found to be satisfying and um they’ve been successful in I have one on the book of EUCOM but it’s just one of them so I would say use technology and use your networks when did you see others come up with the idea of the book of you the book of you serious Sarah the original idea came up about five years ago when I was still working at Accenture I had a lot of clients they happen to be mostly women of kakan they were mid-career professional women and they were they were not working for Accenture they were our clients and they were in the wrong jobs and they were miserable and what I when I would ask them what is it that you want they couldn’t answer the questions and that’s what launched me into thinking about this in a whole new way and I realize that we could use technology to help people get clear about what it is they wanted and that forced me to really think about my job I’ve already made that small change or a couple of small changes actually but it forced me to really look at what would be the role that was most appropriate to me and actually the best match for me is in an area of research and education and teaching and so that’s what I’m writing and so that’s what I decided to do I decided that what I was going to do was to go back to a career that is actually a perfect match for my personality and to write a book to help write a series of books actually to help people really get clear about their interest strengths and needs and what they can do about it and so the book of you was born out of that it I’m using technology to help me write a completely customized book for each individual based on his or her personality so I give them a world renowned personality assessment and when I get the data back from that we can generate a book just for them on a whole host of topics and I call it the book of rebirth Wow that’s all it makes me think of why we even started the podcast anyway because like you mentioned the majority of your clients were women and women definitely are the ones that are looking at improving themselves and what have you and you know I wish the male species would actually step up for that you know we’re it’s not a level playing field if they if to both people don’t know what they want it’s bad but if one person doesn’t yet a person who doesn’t you know I’ve always heard that people grow up differently are you finding a way when they do that book of you individually that they’re able to get their spouses on so they’re on the same page it let me make sure I think you’re asking me um when start getting clear about what’s important to them can they get their huts their husband or their partner or their self aligned with it right you know I find I have not seen any major problems in that area what I find is that the happier people get the loop and the more successful they get the the more comfortable they are in relationships and so it’s not been my experience that that’s been an issue in relationships but should it become an issue in relationships I have a tool for that too and that’s what we call the book of to where you can actually look at the differences between two individuals to figure out how to work through those issues let’s stay there for a second because out of the number of people that we interviewed and just spoke with and passing and this is a generalization again so there’s some asterisks there but around the mid-30s people start questioning a word or I go it’s all right my next phase of life and you know they get interested or introduced to these different modalities and then it’s in many cases it could be one-sided and so you know one spouse is super happy like you said and the other isn’t and so they’re either there is a resentment or they’re just not on the same page and you’re saying that with the book of one or the book of two they can actually not throw out all the years of being together they can actually successfully go to the next phase of life together with the book of two what you can do no pun intended I wasn’t trying to make a rhyme it just kind of came out like that with a book of two what you can do is creatively look at the personality differences so that you can crack your own rules for working through whatever is coming up for you and again I’m operating under the principle that everyone is entitled to pursue their interest and to get their needs met I believe that’s god-given and so when we do that we are living on purpose and we’re using our gifts for the betterment of all and with when you take the personality differences out of the equation you can work so that everybody can do that it makes me think I’m a big movie buff and I’m a cancer so I’m a big Will Ferrell fan you can follow cancer it makes me think of the movie old-school right he’s Frank the tank and he was the guy in in college and you know he did think college kids do and his wife we you know she was kind of fed up with it she dealt with it for a couple of years and then you know that wasn’t her anymore and so it sounds just listening to you that our needs constantly change and our personality also changed so would you suggest that we evaluate personality change neither yearly or Avera timeframe associated with looking at personalities the the needs that I am looking at and measuring I don’t actually change the the underlying tool that I’m using is called the Bertman method and dr. Roger Berkman who created all of this did extensive research on this and found that our underlying personality needs do not change in the long term we may suppress them but they don’t actually change over time they remain relatively constant so since the what I am trying to help people do is to understand what that is our interests our interest areas don’t typically change either we may express them in different areas like we may have a big interest in the art but the area of the arts does up a wide field we may express it entirely differently so based on that research that he did that showed that these do not tend to change over the time my premise is is everybody is entitled to pursue that their god-given talents and so the best thing that we can do is to make sure that everybody has a chance to express their interest and get their their needs met and the world will be a better place because of that what we need to do is to find a way to mesh the differences together and find a way so that everybody can do that and so that there’s not a lot of conflict in the process and so the book of 2 that I developed isn’t is designed to do just that and the highlights what are our needs because we also suppress it and don’t know what they are and so the book of 2 is designed to highlight that for two individuals and to make sure they’re aware of it and to offer some guidance on how that couple can craft their own rules for fighting fair so that you can in fact get interest strengths and needs met interesting so Sara let’s say for example you had a couple or something to put that personality test and let’s say they’re in the early twenties and you say that those needs they might not know they’re always the same that if anything they might hide them if they took that test let’s say when they were in their early 40s like 20 years apart it’s it would show the results would be fairly the same that were you kind of saying that’s what dr. Berkman’s research has shown yes ok now the strength behaviors may change because that’s socialized you know we practiced and learned that that is a way to be successful but for the most part he has found that the needs are relatively constant over time so I will dress a popular Hollywood story that people beat up on or like the highlight there they say there’s a million attorneys and only 10% really want to be attorneys but it’s our need you can make money right so in essence they’re suppressing what they really want to do and if they’re suppressing for a significant amount of time it could be in a marriage to learning their fight they’re fighting unfair they’re breaking the rules what are some indicators or some signs that there is a change that needs to be made because in many cases there’s so much suppression to the point where it blows up and then all bets are off the game’s over and they’re looking at you know the worst case scenario what are some indicators that they need to look at the book of one or the book of K it’s interesting that you bring up an example of attorneys because I have met so many attorneys that are in that situation and the telltale sign is typically burn out and so what I again tell even the attorneys do is get very comfortable or very aware of your interest your strengths and your needs but most importantly your interests and your needs and look at the way you can get that salt first and foremost in a legal profession because there are lots of different kinds of attorneys the kind of attorney that is doing a lot of work in a corporate structure is you know like structuring deals in the background and making sure that everything is iron tight is very different than the attorney that is on the front line of a trial case for example so I suggest again get very clear about what your interest rinks and needs are look at how you can satisfy that in your current job or in the legal profession even before you make a change now I have a technology question for you also just watching the maturation of the market and going from personal ads to forums to where we are now and in 2007 I believe Stanford had done a study about social media and they had seen that people typically are tribal and like the more so hang around their groups so in this study myspace was still around and Facebook was slowly coming into prominence and what they found was they did it to different groups they did a hiker group and then they did a military group and the high school group if you were a jock or a cheerleader or you know preppy you were on Facebook and if you were like a STONER or in a lock group or you know a rapper or something you were on MySpace and the same thing with the military if you were a private you were on MySpace and if you were a captain or above you were on Facebook and I bring that up because my purpose my personal experience was I did a my own experiment somewhat like yours but you actually got married to the person and what I what I looked at was you know there’s a ton of free dating site so I was like okay let me see what kind of response I get offer free dating site sites and then I said well let me spend a couple hundred dollars for a harmony and I’m not promoting any company but so when I initially looked at it the free ones I kind of looked at of over myspace right you’re crazy crazy Saturday night photos and all that and then on eHarmony was your Facebook your you know your Owen mill total shit usual and what I found was the same people were on different platforms they were just presenting them both differently huh so it was it was interesting to me as to how people are malleable to their environment and so you you were talking about your personality needs pretty much stay the same and that their constant but I think people present themselves differently depending on what potentially expected of them all right I think that’s probably true and it would relate more to your strength behavior than to necessarily your interests in your needs and so the sleuth work that is involved here over and above whatever platform you happen to meet somebody on is really getting clear about the individuals interests and needs because they’re not going to be readily apparent you’re going to operate more from your strengths behaviors on those platforms and to getting to know each other process is going to help you discover the interests and needs and the things that you’re going to have to navigate and work through for the rest of the time you’re in that relationship sound like David was about to say something I’ll just kind of confuse the questions here well while you’re waiting I did have a question on Sara because you were talking you’re using it from a business standpoint and you’re looking at you had talked about interest and passion at work and I was recently watching I’m a big fan of Scott Adams you know it’s got at him yeah yes okay good so Scott was talking about Scott out Adams four people in the podcast land he most famously known as a the creator of Dilbert Dilbert cartoons and he’s pretty so he’s pretty vocal on social media and such about his opinions and one thing that he talked about was interest versus passion and I believe in one iteration of his life he was working with the bank and a person you know you had two people come in saying they want a loan and they what they had told Scott was if somebody comes in and they say you know my passion is sports and I want to start a sports bar right don’t give that person alone but if the other person comes in and says I want to start or I want to open another dry-cleaning business and it’s not particularly my passion but here are my profits in law my P&L; reports and I’ve been successful in three other businesses that are the same and they’re like if they had a greater interest in that give them alone so it was more of bunking fashion and I wanted it to take of that from both a business standpoint versus you know I hate to compartmentalize but during our conversation it’s kind of in my mind I don’t know as a guy it’s hard to not differentiate interest versus passion especially from a relationship standpoint well let me tell you a funny story about Gilbert I loved Dilbert cartoons and in fact they populate all of my book of use at licensed and legally used support but the reason that I like Dilbert is because he Gilbert doesn’t take anything too seriously in fact there’s there’s a bit of irony and humor in everything that that is depicted in those cartoons and that’s one of the reasons I use it because I think those cartoons help us to let us not take everything so seriously let’s let’s just kind of go with the flow a little bit but let me speak specifically to the example that you gave because yes there he’s poking fun at something but he’s also highlighting in that particular example where interest and passion actually lies because in the example that you gave somebody who loved sports may not love the activity and the aspect of running a business around sports and in the second example that you gave the individual really really was loving the activity of looking at and tracking the profit and loss and figuring out where where the return is going to come from and so yes I might honor if I’m thinking about giving a loan somebody who loves dealing with that activity as opposed to somebody who just loves the activity of absorbing a sport that kind of totally makes sense I mean I’ve known people that have this love the idea of owning a restaurant but when it came down to it they had no interest in running a business or they have no activity of running or doing the activities involved in owning a restaurant yeah yeah and there’s a third aspect of opening a restaurant restaurant and that is is that the the environment in which you’re working when you’re an entrepreneur when you’re a sole proprietor as is the case when you own a restaurant is entirely different than the environment where you go to work every day in a corporate structure and that’s where needs come in because if your needs are not aligned with that entrepreneurial environment versus the corporate environment you’re going to find it a very difficult task and you’re going to find it stressful what completely agree mmm a lot of confirmation bias during this I can take so let me let me I guess I always like to talk funnels with people we speak with Sarah so you know I I’ve identified that you know I need to evaluate personality needs and I am led to your book of one and then I’m so fired up object– I tell my partner and she I introduced her to the book of two and so now I bought the book of one about the book – I know more about Sarah I shared your Ted your TEDx video and such what happens after that you do more one-on-one you do seminars what happened I do I do do webinars on and I do do some face-to-face seminars as well but I periodically when I have gathered up a group that is interested will run webinars as well where I can take the results from each individual and as a group we can excuse or what that means for individuals and on a personalized basis so I keep the webinars small to groups of ten or fewer so that we can delve in and be specific and I typically organize those as soon as I have a group that’s ready to go you can you can actually order it talking about funnels if you go to the book of to that book of eucom you’ll have an option to actually sign up for one of those do you do or are you finding in your back office I’m always interested in conversion rate optimization and so are you finding similarities and demographics when you have groups of ten like that I have people that like trucks or in this group of ten and people that like the Eagles in that group of ten are you finding similarities in your audiences so I haven’t found similarities like liking trucks who are Eagles or country music or anything like that I have found a lot of similarities just in people that are very interested in exploring what’s next for them and getting the most out of their relationships and getting the most deaths out of their careers and what they’re doing in life do you find that there’s a particular age group that you work with more than any other yeah typically between 35 and 50 general basis I’d say that although they’re yeah that’s that’s mostly the age group that I’m working out although I am seeing a demographic increasing and those are those are people that in their early 60s that are star retiring early and they’re looking at what’s next for me not so much from the relationship size as from what’s next for me so the book of youth side I’m seeing that oh that’s interesting that kind of goes back to the David question I guess my second part of that and just checking in you know for I see in business cycles you have the ten year cycle and such and you’re saying if you’re running to this new demographic of early 60s it’d be interesting to see you know kind of checking in this is my snapshot early 40s this is my snapshot early fifties early sixties early seventies right because it’s a generalization of course midlife crisis and we laugh about it but great if there’s in and I know it’s individualized but there have to be it I just think there’s some outliers that exist that Wow if we pinpoint 40 and everyone grows differently of course but I’m just compartmentalizing again my whole guy brain so that’s me thinking out loud well I do find um I’m not sure how to respond exactly to your question but I do find in those that are retiring early and looking at what’s next for me are not as concerned them is motivated by money and earning a living so they they are more interested in they’re they’re more able to take a risk and pursue an experiment with a vacations than with with jobs and that makes sense you know typically they’ve got a little more of a nest egg and and the amount of income is not as important as the satisfaction that comes from from being in the right job and pursuing the right things your quality of life yeah mm-hmm yeah that makes sense well I was also thinking that sustain with the early sixties I’m really intrigued because you have unfortunately the what top three killer is hard to beat unfortunately more and more women are having heart disease just for a number of factors but there’s additional stress and at the early 60s or the generalizations that women wind up living longer than men and a lot of it could be it’s attributed to their quality of life and how they process things so do I love to actually have you back in the future to talk about you know the older generation and just different issues as you mentioned it’s not so much money it’s more other intangibles but at 40 or 30 you weren’t thinking about hmm I would be delighted so you said we’re almost at the top of the hour you’re talking about your site and such I’d love for you to give out here your contact information so people get in touch with you yeah my site is book of eucom book of you calm and if you’re interested in the book of 2 which is the couple’s tool you’ll see it right on the front page of book of use calm so that’s the easiest place to go you can communicate with me that way all the sleaziest isakov’s just book of you calm one last thing is we are in that season but it artificial or not but Valentine’s is right around the corner and what’s your what’s your take on our Hallmark holiday and is that when you get a majority of people evaluating or re-evaluating and are led to your door well that’s interesting I think that we have a we have a very set way around approaching Valentine’s Day which is that everybody wants to get chocolate and roses and that’s not always the case and the important thing I think is to understand what is it that’s going to light up your partner and how can you give that and by getting really in touch with your partner’s interest drinks in need you can personalize what you’re actually giving your partner it might be a massage it might be just a quiet evening at home that might be the most important thing or in the case of my husband I know what he cares about most is a car that a really nice card that I spent time thinking about with a personalized note on the inside so so my counselors personalize it absolutely and our say-so of it especially for all of the homies listening that are in the supermarket on Wednesday booking out cards I think he missed the personalization it was a joy speaking with you Sarah our flew by and and I love talking about your history and from everything from the personal ad in 1994 to how much you’ve grown to 2018 it was a pleasure well thank you so much it was really enjoy talking with you guys as well yes thank you very much go Eagles and we’ll talk you soon gang all right thank you [Music] thanks again for checking out another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeless perspective podcast please check us out on our website at intrinsic motivation dot life where you can click on the speak pipe button and leave any suggestions for a future podcast that you like us to cover also check us out on our social media sites we have a YouTube channel Facebook page iTunes podcast in addition to stitcher and Google Play all under intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective check you out next time have a great day you