Clinical Master Herbalist Interview With Steven Horne – The Herb Guy

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Video Transcript

welcome to intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective podcast where we meet experts from all walks of life to learn their intrinsic motivations so that they can share it with the world what do we have in store today stay tuned to find out more good morning good evening good afternoon to everyone out there in podcast land this is another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective this is Hamza and I’m David and today we have a registered herbologist who’s also certified in iridology and has been in the industry for a number of years and has the credentials to back it up as well so we are not meeting with this gentleman in the back alley of your local grocery store to talk about herbal home today we have an expert Stephen horn welcome to the call Steven hate the traffic yeah I really appreciate it it’s good to have you Stephen I was David and I were excited because you are a registered herbalist and I know that there is a huge pocket of the population that is really gravitating towards herbs and it could be just a result of not being able to you know as a result of the healthcare costs escalating such but I think you are bringing a lot to the table and that you can give a overall balanced viewpoint to the subject matter so if you could just talk before we get started just kind of go into how you got into becoming a registered herbalist and into this industry as a whole well I started off learning about edible medicinal plants of my teens and in Scouting and learning about door survival and I had a lot of health problems growing up in my early 20s I got this idea that maybe this stuff out in nature might do things that modern medicine wasn’t doing for me so I started dabbling in natural healing and started to get provements my health I hadn’t gotten with Orthodox medicine and then I majored in communications I wound up working helping of master herbalist put together his training program and later went to as the editor of the corporate publications for a major urban nutritional supplement company and then they found out I could teach so they started having me teach schools to their distributors so what I loved them I went on my own and I’ve been teaching people about natural medicine and writing books and and just doing this full time since the 1990 so I’ve been on my own for quite some time and I’ve professional member of the American herbalist guild which was what a registered herbalist is and I also wonders on their board of directors for four years and was president for four years of the organization so that’s a little bit about my background what do you see I mean 1990 a while ago what do you see as far as the market from an educational standpoint and an awareness and openness to pursuing the herbal it has been growing very strongly in fact the urban d’Urberville segment of the natural health market you know vitamins minerals natural foods and everything is one of the fastest growing segments in that market and I agree with you there part of that may be because with of very high deductibles on insurance and the other things with the cost of medicine people may be looking for alternatives but I also think there’s just a lot of people who are like me who are tired of kind of symptomatic treatment and trying to find things that actually help them get well so they’re looking for alternative the herbs in behind for a long long time I mean that that’s the really a lot of the drugs that people take originally came from compounds that were extracted our plant so it’s not like herbal medicine is something really weird because we find a lot of you know bioactive compounds in in plants I’m looking for what I’ve seen in my personal experience is fanaticism so someone that’s interested in in anything right kind of like Christmas morning and it’s kind of overindulgence with herbs if you will and they you come in our house and they have like three counters full of herbs how do you go from being from a fanatic of I just want to try everything to having a more balanced viewpoint well I think that that requires knowledge I one of the things I’ve had heard people say this absolutely ridiculous is it’s not it’s natural it can’t hurt you well it’s not exactly true since there are a lot of poisonous plants and I remember one time a mom brought in some weight-loss product that contained Chinese ephedra and guarana which is very high source of caffeine and some other things that she’d been giving to her eight-year-old son for a couple of years because she thought he was overweight and he was having heart palpitations and I say yeah supplement you’re giving him is causing him heart palpitations she says well that can’t happen because it’s just natural and I said I’m sorry I can because you’re giving him something that’s extremely you know hyper stimulating to the heart and he’s just kid and so you know people have there’s a poem and I don’t know the exact words but it basically paraphrased says drink deeply from the spring of knowledge because shallow draughts intoxicating the brain and drinking deeply largely Sobers us up again so yeah so you want it you want to you know think about what what you do from a pragmatic point of view and it’s not that observable because I know people who who are taking 30 and 40 herbal supplements at a time and work I don’t think is a good idea but they’re not dying and I’ve often told people if you went to the pharmacy and picked 30 or 40 over-the-counter medications and took them all the same time I don’t think you’d be doing as well right yeah no I really people have access to her pretty safe yeah if someone comes to see you about an interest in herbs right like you just meant you had a great example of if someone did that same thing at a pharmacy how do you woody what’s your first steps that you take when someone comes to see to identify the first steps they should take towards consuming herbs well I try to teach people about the basic categories verbs and how herbs work now I mean if it’s someone coming to me as a client I just you know help figure out what they need for their particular situation but when I’m trying to train people out herbs I actually start by getting them acquainted with the basic action verbs there’s basically twelve basic categories of herbs and in other words twelve groups of phytochemical constituents that interact with the body in kind of major ways and traditional herbalism is based on the idea that herbs like speed up metabolism or warm the body or as they’re heating or cooling meaning the cooldown metabolism reduce inflammation heat that they dry out tissues or damp that they moisten tissues that are dry that they relax constricted tissues or tone up overly relaxed tissues and that’s really the basis of herbalism it’s trying to it’s not about treating diseases and that’s one of the things that people getting trouble with is they in try to import the medical model over in herbalism and herbs do not correlate very well with the diseases they treat they correlate better with the state the tissues are in and the function of the different body systems and so they they are either strengthening the functions of specific body systems or they’re balancing out tissues that are out of balance in the body and when you learn herbalism that way it is really really common sense and very easy to understand it isn’t just a list of oh here’s a bunch of herbs you use to treat a whole bunch of different diseases when I when I tried that approach initially I got kind of hazard results and then when I started to learn about what the actions verbs really were and started to learn to think in terms of the way traditional herbalism looked at herbs I got very dependable results that’s the biggest problem is not learning the paradigm that goes with herbalism and just trying to use herbs in a medical model whoo does that make sense yeah I can give you a very practical example years ago I read back to Eden by Jethro Clausen and he talks about using an herb called white oak bark for bleeding gums for varicose veins for hemorrhoids and several other things and I remember looking at that going what like how can one herb treat all those different things and and because you’re thinking in terms of diseases and whatnot but when you understand that white oak bark is an astringent and then the stringent contracts and tones loose and spongy tissue and dries up excess secretion and then you understand your varicose vein is of course a vein that’s lacking in tone bleeding gums you know are also swollen lacking in tone the hemorrhoid is a varicose vein in the rectum all of a sudden it makes perfect sense you’re applying it wherever tissues are swollen and lacking in tone you get it yeah so it sounds like you’re saying that people should have paid more attention in biology class we actually herbalism fits very well with basic anatomy and physiology rather than the study of pathology hmm so it’s more it sounds like you come from it and approach of being more so proactive as of as opposed to others that may go the more traditional route of treating a symptom right like the example you gave may have been oh these things are happen to me I need to treat them as opposed to being more so taking care of their overall health yeah well the first thing I learned are figured out that took me from being kind of a hit-and-miss herbalist to getting more consistent results was when I figured out that symptoms were not disease actually especially when you look at acute disease the symptoms of acute disease like a cold are actually the efforts of the immune system to kick the virus and the irritation for things are irritating the body out of the system so your runny nose your coughing your diarrhea your vomiting your skin eruptions and you know that kind of thing or all the body trying to flush irritants so what do we do we take medications to try to suppress the symptoms take a hangover for example see what fever does if it’s a mild fever like 102 or something okay what that is is the immune system elevates the body temperature because it inhibits viral replication that allows the immune system to gain a one-up on the microbes and and actually get over the almost more quickly if you suppress the fever it allows the mic the viruses to multiply and spread farther through the body before the body body can build up a counter-attack so usually what we’re doing in in treating illness in Western civilization is we’re treating symptoms and we’re thinking than treating symptoms relieving the symptom is fixing the cause and it isn’t fixing the cause so I started with cold started to work with the symptoms I started to find ways to help stimulate the body’s energy open up the channels of elimination so the body could more easily flush what was irritating it and I started to find out it’s really easy to get over cold in 24 hours especially if you’re you know eating healthy and you know or reasonably well a fact I see my kids start to come down with something start giving them herbs and help help them to cough it out and sneeze it out or whatever and a lot of times they’d be better in two hours Wow because you’re trying to work with what the body is trying to do instead of against so isn’t just a change from using like drugs to using herbs it’s a change in the way you think about health and disease let me give you another example high cholesterol now people take drugs to lower their cholesterol right right there there’s at least six or seven maybe eight different reasons why your cholesterol might be high your cholesterol elevates when you’re fighting an infection because it helps to bind the endotoxins from microbes your cholesterol elevates when you’re exposed to environmental pollutants because cholesterol binds environmental pollutants and takes them back to the liver your cholesterol elevates when your when your thyroid is low your cholesterol elevates when your gallbladder is sluggish because most of the cholesterol in your body is used to make bio so so just taking a drug like statins that interferes with your body’s ability to manufacture cholesterol does not fix any of the underlying reasons why the cholesterol went up in the first place you understand and that’s what you’re trying to do in herbal or natural medicine is identify the cause deal with the cause and then buy when you fix the cause the symptom is not necessary anymore oh yeah it makes me wonder if the president was actually listening to you or if you know the president because from I’ve got a tongue-in-cheek but it was just really interesting that they asked him oh it’s flu season did you get your flu shot because that crap doesn’t work now from you know with all all the lobbyists with pharmaceutical companies I’m sure it’s just like I have never had a five never had a flu shot in my life and I and well III I don’t like tell people never to have vaccines because I’m not that fanatical I I don’t you know I didn’t vaccinate my own kids but I’ve never had a flu shot and I tell people foo shots are the stupidest thing because you’re you’re taking something that contains toxic chemicals like mercury that suppress your immune system and there are several thousand flu viruses and every year they pick three or four that they think might be active that year and they make a vaccine for them so that’s like playing a game of chance with your immune system right actually mate maybe even if the flu shot actually does generate immunity then you’re only immune to what like one percent maybe off the potential flu viruses that you could come in contact with yeah that doesn’t seem like very good odds to me yeah no and I know lots of people who don’t get the flu shots and then they never get sick and all the people who did get flu shots do yeah see what I try to explain to people about vaccines as vaccines do not make you immune they challenge your immune system to build up a resistance to though whatever you’ve been injected with so the hero is the immune system but what happens if people are not eating correctly if they don’t have enough vitamin D they don’t have enough of zinc they don’t have enough selenium they don’t have enough vitamin C if they don’t have the nutrients that help their immune system function properly okay then you’re artificially stressing your immune responses without having built up a good immune system so I say the real hero is the immune system and we ought to spend less time worrying about microbes and worrying about you know vaccines all this stuff and and worry about how to build a healthy immune system so let me I’m not others I’m not not not dispassionate about this right or not at all that doesn’t come across at all because but but it’s because I’ve been in this long enough and I’ve seen this enough and I’ve studied this enough that I just think there’s a whole huge misplaced emphasis so it’s not that modern medicine all bad and there’s no reason ever to go to the doctor it’s just in a lot of cases we’re just putting too much emphasis on the wrong things yeah what I thought you’re gonna jump in David oh you’re about to say something cause and where you go ahead yeah it actually had triggered two different questions from Stephen thinking about target markets and usually when we talk about flu vaccinations they think of little you know if there’s a shortage there like it will make sure the children and the elderly have access to it do you actually promote to elderly community these about the importance of understanding herbs and so they’re not as because they have weaker immune systems so are you seen as an alternative to that or D partner with the medical community to get the ballot well I haven’t had much opportunity to partner with the medical community I would love to but I I would love to be able to educate elderly people about things they can do to build their immune system rather than relying on flu shots I mean this is one of my goals is to try to find ways to get my message out to people and and just wake them up to what they need to do to the to this whole concept of what natural healing is all about it’s not just about you know memorize a memorizing a bunch of alternative remedies to different diseases it’s a whole change of paradigm a way of thinking about health and disease and that’s what really got me going this is when I realized that you know our our paradigms were incorrect about the body now you’re also a certified our biology instructor so could you tell us a little bit about just the subject matter of our dalla ji and how you incorporate that with clients that you work with yeah well I read ology is the study of the markings and patterns in the iris of the eye and also to a certain degree the pupil tonus the tone of the pupil and a little bit in the white of the eye the sclera that’s that’s called serology but most of what you see in the iris is genetic information and the the research that was done in Europe by medical doctors basically demonstrates that iridology is a predictor of risk areas in your health and I think there’s a lot of research to be on iridology is still a very very controversial subject but I have found this to be extremely true and it may have something to do with epigenetics the way that express themselves because just because you have a marking in your iris doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll develop the health problems associated with it although most people do it’s because you have a potentiality towards it and if you do something to actually strengthen that part of your body you may never get that in other words if by iridology is one of the most potentially preventative modalities I know in terms of determining where your genetic risks are and then what you can do to balance that out to keep yourself from getting sick in the first place because you can see tendencies to diabetes to heart disease to to adjust of problems to you know all kinds of things as well as basic personality characteristics in the iris die that then you can help use that information to kind of guide people towards a healthier lifestyle this can help be more balanced for them now if he’s been out for some time you know why this still inna controversial um well because addition originally dr. Bernard Jensen was a chiropractor who really pushed iridology and in the United States for a long time and one of the things that he taught was that the iris actually reflected the actual tissue state in the body in other words the iris was was actually telling you where things were and and would change over time and so most of the research that was done in United States was based on hypothesis that you could detect diseases from the iris and so most of the studies done obviously came up negative because honestly you can’t predict that from the iris I I do know of to a couple of studies that were done along the lines of what I’m talking about that actually turned out really positive the founders of the international iter College practitioners Association that I belong to did a study with hospital where they they took people who were already sick and they weren’t given you know what illnesses they had for their people who were already sick and they made sure that they had good eye pictures my pictures that were really clear and easy to read and then they told you know what kinds of health problems they were prone to and there was a very high degree of correlation between my health problems actually had and what health problems they were prone to and there was a study done in Russia with like 3,000 factory workers where they took and looked at factors about your the strength of your Constitution how resilient you are to disease and they rated people in a category of one to five one being the most resilient five being the least resilient okay and then they tracked them for two years and the people who had the highest resiliency had almost no sick days you know whatever people had the lowest resiliency had the most sick days and it was a perfect correlation right across the board between how often the people got sick so the it’s a predictor of of you know kind of what your genetic inheritance is and and what nature gave you to work with is what I like to say which is why I think it’s really really useful I’ve had people argue with me well then what good is it you know like it does it doesn’t tell you what diseases you are well I I think it’s kind of nice to know that you have tendencies towards like my eye pattern shows I have a tendency towards blood sugar problems and so you know I I was told that by a neurologist when I was way back in like my early 30s and so I decided to really start avoiding sugar I tell you if when I eat sugar I going downhill really fast I’m very sensitive to the stuff so it’s really a good thing that someone told me I had that tendency so I could start adopting a diet lifestyle stayed away from it right or that that’s that’s worse you know some people have a really really strong Constitution and they can get away with you know a little bit drinking and smoking and whatever and they still live to a ripe old age there’s others of us who inherited a less resilient Constitution we need to take take better care of ourselves you said that okay you mentioned the sugar and it doesn’t do well with you when a person you know if they were to get like an ecology exam and you make you know suggestions or whatever and the person makes changes in their lifestyle and diet and whatnot and they start to get better is that reflective back in their iris like if you looked you know 600 it doesn’t that’s the point is it doesn’t change what’s in their iris okay the iris is genetic they basically they now have a whole thing called iris biometrics and the and the iris is a better identification than fingerprint because there’s more patterns to look at in the iris and those patterns do not change over a person’s lifetime there are some things that do change in the iris there’s um there’s pigmentations that can appear or disappear there is something called a lipid ring which is a white ring at the periphery of the iris that you don’t see in young people and it’s it becomes increasingly there as people get older and it’s actually a sign of disturbed glucose and fat metabolism that tends towards hardening the arteries and in in it likes a very common in people who are 60-70 and you know up in 280 but if it shows this up in someone who’s 30 or 40 there was a study done and that that sign alone was an eight times risk factor for heart disease developing heart disease in early age so that while there are some things are acquired and some things like people tonus that do reflect changes most of what you’re seeing is is genetic it’s it but but genetics one of the things that we’ve learned in recent years is you’re not doomed by your genetics because the expression of your genes is controlled by something called epigenome and the epigenome up regulates and down regulates the expression of various genes so for example if you take cancer all right the your cells in in the early stage when you’re in your mom’s womb after the egg and sperm game together and the cells started growing grew very rapidly and they grew with a ferment of metabolism which is what cancer cells do and then at a certain point there are episodes that turn on shut all those shut all that down and change the cells from anaerobic metabolism to anaerobic metabolism well in cancer those epigenetic markers all get turned off and the cells revert back to that more primitive metabolism but it’s the epigenetics that are regulating that so like for example you might have a tendency to gluten intolerance but usually something triggers it some stress on the body triggers it that causes it to manifest the same is true for mental illness people might have a family history you know of tendency to mental illness in a family but it usually won’t trigger until there’s an extremely traumatic event and what’s happening is there’s a there epigenetic markers that are getting altered due to the environmental influences and you can you can turn those up you can up regulate or down rec you regulate those genetic influences with nutrition and and the way you live and your mental attitudes and so epigenetic information really helps explain I think what’s going on with iridology why why you can look in the eye and see a tendency towards something but if a person adopts a healthy lifestyle that that all can be like suppressed if they don’t if they’re likely to get all those health problems their eyes show they’re prone to yeah isn’t that fascinating I mean I find it really interesting to look in people’s eyes oh yeah I agree I you know one set I think was probably Rigaud I got a colonic and the guy that gave it to me you know who of course we were talking about I asked him how he got into all this and he said well coming out of the Vietnam War he had a lot of issues problems that he wasn’t getting anywhere with doctors and so you just started kind of doing his own studying and a lot of it had to do with the eye I was amazed I was like wow he’s like yeah I got a lot of information just studying the iris and the eye and all that and he basically healed himself of all the stuff he had he I can’t through and I’ll kind of the stuff issues and it was a you know cleaning up his diet and just a lot of stuff that he did it all himself so I can look I can look in your eyes and I can tell you tons about your personality too because your Constitution is your genetic Constitution is both a tendency towards certain personality traits as well as health history so basically I can I can look in people’s eyes and I can tell whether they tend to be a visual learner an auditory learner or a kinesthetic learner I can tell whether they tend to be introverted or extroverted I can tell whether they tend to be right or left brain dominant I can tell things like that they are hyper achiever and they tend to like work too hard and stress themselves out or they tend to be too caring about other people and basically you know are overly compassionate and feel like they have to rescue all these trait things are easily identified in the iris and I do this with people they come into office and I sit there and I’ll start telling them you’re people with your eye pattern tend to be like this this this this and just look at me like what like I just nailed them yeah and and it’s one way I have of helping build a bridge that people recognize that I do know what I’m talking about you know the because because they’re going like wow and I’ve looked at eye pictures of people that I’ve never met you know and someone’s brought them to me and I’ll sit there and say well this person is like this and this and they go wow how do you know that you don’t even know them I know them they’re like what sort of life will get on who so that’s been useful too because what you do is you get if you’re dealing with a visual learner you want to give them something to read if you’re doing with an auditory learner you can talk to them you’re dealing with someone ket aesthetic give them something to do you you and a lot of the kids who get in trouble in school being labeled as hyperactive are chemists attic learners who tend to be hyper achievers and so they have a hard time sitting still because they want to be moving all the time yeah and so they get so you get different personality characteristics and then society tries to take people with these different you know personality characteristics and strengths and weaknesses and shove them all into one mold but it doesn’t work yeah Wow huh so are you are there any conditions or things that people have come to see you and you you said well not anything that you don’t work on or anything it’s a balloon well there are things there are things that I will not if there are things I prefer someone is getting metalic medical attention for while we work on the underlying cause like you know I don’t I don’t feel comfortable someone coming and saying you know here treat my cancer you know when I go like II you know I can give you information about this and you have to make your choices you know what you think is going to work best for you stuff like that I get really hesitant about a lot because of the legal implications of it and like you’re happy I had someone call me and they say hey you know I’m driving bleeding from the rectum ice it would sure wish I do I said go to the hospital because because that’s the case where you might be hemorrhaging internally and you know you could be dead in a couple hours right yeah so and they say well you know what I said I said you know I found out they had you know they had some astringent I said take that astringent on your way that it’s cute you get it in other words there are times when medical intervention is is extremely warranted to stabilize the situation well I personally don’t like the way cancer is treated in our society I think it’s very counterproductive I think there’s there are a lot of things that we could do to them to to have more effective cancer treatments but nonetheless this is I don’t want someone you know making me responsible for the decisions about how they’re going to go with their cancer but part of that let me explain is I also understand a lot about the correlations between a person’s personality and their emotional problems their mental emotional problems and the illnesses they’re prone to well and so so cancer people people get cancer just socially no tend to have several common things that work in them on an emotional level for example one they tend to be martyring themselves they’re taking care of everybody else and they’re neglecting themselves so one of the things I always tell people with cancer is that they need to take time to do pleasurable things for themselves to relieve stress because a pleasurable experience does more good for your body and a stressful experience does harm so you should deliberately seek out things like getting a massage soaking in a bath with epsom salts or listening to some beautiful me that engages senses in a pleasure oh boy another family also yeah pampering yourself another one and and I’ll tell you I’ve done this numerous times and you know what the first thing that just about every person with cancer tells me I say make a list of ten things that you find pleasurable should what they say like what like what yeah like and I give them a couple examples they go oh I said now you have to do one of those every day and the next thing is they say well I don’t have time oh I said I’ve said one way well why don’t you time will have a 12 year old and 14 year old I’ve got to do their laundry and I’ve got a blah blah blah and they need all this stuff I said you know I think a twelve hundred fourteen year old are old enough to do their own laundry why don’t you teach them do their own laundry and tell them that mom needs to take a break for herself or they might not have a mom in six months and then they’ll have to do their own laundry anyway right and why I find it very difficult to convince people with cancer to take time for themselves I do oh and and another thing that I that I work on is that usually is the fact that they’re taking care of others and not take care of themselves they resent their they’ve got a lot of resentment and they start forgiving people the resentment is eating them alive well I just think yeah so so you and then the other thing is they have a hard time standing up for themselves because because I’ve had lots of people with cancer say well I don’t want to go the medical road but my husband doesn’t want me to go with natural where he was again so I I’m going to do this to please him yeah I’m sitting and going it’s not his life on the line because you know what I’m saying you know but that’s part of the thing is learning to stand up for themselves and say what I want what I feel is best for me that I spoke to a cancer group here in st. George because one of the the people who was in the group was my client and I went and I talked to him about this and I said I started describing the typical cancer personality said now if any of you feel this doesn’t apply supply for you I never make blanket statements there’s always exceptions rule so but all of them were staring at me like I just shot them between the eyes is anybody here who doesn’t feel like this applies to them nobody raised their hand like 20 women okay yeah because that’s because there are patterns to the way people are in their personality and whatever the lead to different habits of diet lifestyle that wind up creating illnesses for them air that make sense our May photos not just it’s just not not just what they eat or whatever but why are they doing that to themselves yeah see ya what the where I think that warm well just were merely going back to the iris and I when you do it a treatment like that how long is that okay when I do a program for people I actually if I can see them in person I do four things I I for five things I look at their iris to get an idea of their constitution I I check their tongue and their pulse and do applied kinesiology or muscle testing to get an idea of what’s going on right now and I look at their case history and from all that I try to figure out where what are the causes what organ systems aren’t working properly what body systems are out of balance and what kind of things are out of balance in their diet and lifestyle and everything and I make you know recommendations based on that and typically I expect them to start feeling better in somewhere between seven and ten days Wow and if they don’t then I think I’ve done something wrong and then you guys make him gentle and then I make adjustments until I start getting results and one of the things I do with my personal consults that I think is kind of interesting is I charge for a consult and a follow up so I so I make sure that whatever I put them on is working for them like two weeks later if it’s not I give them another free follow-up and another three follow-up and another three fault freethought follow-up until I get it right or in other words it’s one flat fee until I get it right yeah generally usually between one and three times they’ll tell me that there’s they’re definitely seeing improvement and things are working well and because I figure that’s what I’m getting paid for is to get them on the right track yeah that and I think if if if all healers only got paid when they got results like a lot of mess and would go down the drain really fast oh yeah I will take there thank you so let me ask you um being it you know aligned with the herbs and that kind of information are you personally are you a vegetarian or a vegan or do you see whatever you want no actually um I don’t think vegan diets are healthy okay I’ve met healthy vegetarians you know people who eat maybe some dairy and eggs or stuff like that but I have never seen a vegan that I would consider healthy okay it’s almost impossible to get certain nutrients from solely a plant diet and what really led me in thing is when I read though the information about Weston Price and what he did in the 1930s going around the world and studying indigenous populations of people who were really really healthy and had really good bones and really good teeth and etc and he found that all these help the indigenous populations that rarely got sick and had almost no crime and were so for that though typically somewhere around one-third of their diet came from animal proteins and the healthiest people had robbed raw dairy products from what one of one of the couple of the following either rod raw dairy products from grass-fed animals seafoods or organs organ meats from land animals okay and they usually a high percentage of their diet was not fat’s and he tested their diets and they had 10 times more fat soluble vitamins four times more water-soluble vitamins four times more macro minerals like calcium magnesium than the average person he tested in Western civilization in the 1930s can you imagine how much worse it is now yeah Wow okay so what I tell people is don’t eat highly processed and refined foods you know eat try to find you know grass-fed meat and dairy products try to find the healthiest food you can find that’s natural that’s not refined and processed the the simplest things people could do to dramatically improve their health diet wise or to eliminate white you know all refined sugars all refined flours you know and processed grains and actually kind of reduce the intake of grain in general and and then also to get rid of the processed vegetable oils no no you know partially hydrogenated oils or refined vegetable oils stick to to butter and coconut oil and olive oil and you know fish and other natural sources you know avocados nothing seeds don’t worry about eggs don’t you know don’t worry about the fat issue because almost all really healthy people in the world ate a high percentage of their diet and fat hello there but it was natural fat it wasn’t like refined vegetable oils margarine and shortening Yeah right so I just try to dig into for fruits and vegetables and and you know natural meats that’s what I tell people to do is natural list you possible can’t not organic to imagine as long with the organic you know if you can afford it I mean just if you can’t afford it eat the best food you can afford right or there yeah well says let me ask you another question have you ever worked with anyone on a herb level as far as some of the women I treat in addiction yeah I’ve worked with addictions I there are things you can do with various addictions you know with nutrition or herbs but I tend to do more of kind of the emotional healing thing with people who have addictions oh and I have a I have a belief about addiction in in general addiction is not the pursuit of pleasure it’s trying to avoid pain paying there I completely agree so so what you need to do is help the person who’s addicted to deal with their pain all right yeah because goal as they’re running they’re trying to run away from their pain and what what propelled me into emotional healing was when I figured out you can’t run away from your pain you have to face it and work through it and then then you’ll get over it if you run away from it it will it will haunt you for the rest of your life yeah the best thing is someone who’s you know like you know lost a loved one if you can do is grieve cry scream whatever and accept the fact that you’ve got this pain and be ok with it and you’ll get over it because your body has mechanisms for discharging the stress but we tend to think that you know doing that oh that’s so inappropriate you know I can’t cry I can’t scream I can’t shout I can’t go throw rocks at something right that’s socially inappropriate and yet those are the very kinds of things that help people heal because they get in touch with their emotions and they work through them and I know that’s contrary to all what a lot of people say but it’s it’s the I find that most people are so out of touch with their feelings that they don’t even know how they feel yeah are you back on mm you ask them how they feel when they tell you what they think yeah okay and and the way you know that they’re telling what they think instead of feeling is because a feeling is a bodily sensation yeah so when they tell me you know well I’m feeling you know like I’ve been really cheated and betrayed and that’s blah blah blah well where do you feel that you know what where in your body do you feel that oh I don’t know what you’re talking about if you can’t identify where it is in your body that you’re feeling it it’s not a feeling it’s a thought yeah let me know so and and and and what I learned is that feelings see there’s two basic kinds of feelings there’s the bodily sensations and then there’s the emotional feelings well if you think about bodily sensations like hunger thirst fatigue etc what’s the cure for them they’re telling you I’m hungry I need water I need sleep right yeah but bodily sensations tell you that there’s something wrong and that you need to do something about it right then what does your anger your fear your said whatever they’re telling you that there’s something wrong with the way you’re relating to the world and you need to do something about it yeah motion about okay and you understand it’s in that same thing you can’t say well I’m hungry and it’s his fault right yeah well I’m the one who needs to eat I’m the one who needs to take care of myself well it’s the same thing with your emotions most people make the mistake of either suppressing their emotions in other words denying that they feel something or blaming it on circumstances and other people you have to learn to understand what your feelings are telling you about the way you’re dealing with the world and when you change how you deal with the world you’ll come back to peace yeah change your relationships yes oh yeah we’re watching it because it makes me think of when people have like a major health crisis and then like they had a brush with death and then they didn’t die now they have the whole new lease on life and it seems like only at that point are they open to changing or addressing any type of emotional healing yeah that’s often the case in fact I I personally believe that a lot of the traumatic things in our life and including illnesses are wake-up calls we’re trying to say hey you know your soul is moving in the wrong direction you need to think about where you’re going I often tell people who have been told by the doctor that they have six months or a year to live or whatever I say okay let’s suppose God grabbed magically grants you you know 10 more years what are you going to do differently with that 10 years than what you’ve been doing for the last 10 years why should he heal you if you’re just going to keep doing the same things you’ve been doing what are you going to change how are you going to be different the interesting question right because that’s the question I’m trying to get at how are you off-track in your life what do you need to change about the way you’re going I got this so you read it but I can’t remember the name of the author read this in book Giada who is a medical doctor he had a colleague who’d become a doctor because his family had pressured and yet he hated being a doctor he got cancer and he he knew that the survival typical survival rate was someone with the type of cancer was something like six months so I decided he was going to spend last six months doing what he always wanted to do which was play the violin instead of being a doctor so he quit being a doctor and started playing the violin and five years later he was still playing the violin mmm okay and I think that’s what is life is really telling you when you have these catastrophic illnesses there’s something in you that that you’re Edward Bach who developed the Bach Flower Remedies felt that disease arose because we have a higher self that’s that’s in tune with God and our life purpose but because of our fears and our social thing and all that stuff we’re afraid of manifesting our life purpose so we get out of harmony with ourselves internally and that leads to internal conflict which leads to disease I’m so the whole idea of the Bach Flower Remedies was to clear those internal conflicts so that we could then manifest what our higher self what our soul wants to manifest in this world now here I’m just really kind of revealing you know where I really come from and the way I think about things right because because I really find that to be true with when people that I work with have a question in that regard since you deal with the eye and I’m not sure David asked this question but I know it’s based off of you the genes and such but in 1990 like in the 90s we didn’t have that much access to this blue light that we’re so addicted to from our laptops iPads and cell phones and so in an ornament amount of time that’s spent in front of these what kind of impact is it immediate or something that you see foreshadowing for the future as far as eye health and all these electronics ah that’s a really good question since I wind up spending way too much time in front of a computer no you know you know I’m right and I teach right yeah I I think that I learned about whole idea of electromagnetic pollution in the 80s and I I became aware that you know all these things were having an influence on us like I don’t like to carry my cell phone round with me like especially in my pocket um and I don’t like to talk directly on it if I can help but you know I’d rather use a headset I try to men I minimize my exposure to some of these things because I really think it’s unhealthy and I just got married this June and I’ve been trying to to get like my stepsons to limit their time on this stuff because I just I don’t think it’s healthy and III know with my own children when they were young I came to the conclusion that TV was a plug-in drug and it wasn’t good for young children so when my children were little like under the age of five we didn’t even have a TV I wanted them to crawl around and pull pots and pans out of the country to come and play you know what I’m saying I think it really helped to develop their IQ and I think kids getting stuck with a tablet or in front of a TV as an electronic babysitter is actually really bad for kids and I I don’t know where this is taking us because I i am i heard psychologists say things like but a lot of young people cannot identify the emotion in facial expressions anymore all right it’s it’s it’s disconnecting people from real life and I do know that the the blue the blue light from those screens also inhibits you from going to sleep because because it affects your because all kinds of light affects your pineal gland you know you know the fluorescent lights and all that stuff has an effect on your pineal gland it was demonstrated by John odd so anyway yeah I I tried at least do things to counteract it you know sure and I had come back in your you were talking to David about just different foods and lifestyle changes and I don’t know if you’ve heard but in recent news Frances halted in a production of glyphosate which is one of the main ingredients of GMOs oh yeah the oh really that’s interesting yeah it’s really out because you know because they the the whole issue of GMOs is a is a big one I I’ve you know all of the studies that have been done on GMOs where they start to come up with the the problems GMOs are causing get halted well so I think I think genetically modified corn and these other things have done wreak havoc with people’s digestive systems two reasons one is because the the whole point of the majority of GMOs is to allow you to put more weedkiller on there and the glycol phosphates and they and those glycol phosphates kill friendly bacteria they kill friendly bacteria in the soil and they kill friendly bacteria in your gut and the other major GMO produces an insecticide in the plant itself that also kills gut bacteria and the whole microbiome in our gut is a huge part of our immune system and it’s under assault in our society and one of the reasons why people’s immune systems are so weak with antibiotics and all the disinfectants everybody uses and all the you know chemicals in the food they eat they just don’t have it and health healthy intestinal flora so they have a very weak immune system and would you still have a position as with autism and in most of whatever the gluten gluten affliction that that’s happening in the pol yeah the gluten thing is a byproduct this because when you get the imbalance in the gut microflora one of the things they’ll do is cause leaky gut and in the the leaky gut causes you to absorb things like gluten that you wouldn’t normally absorb or casein from dairy products and whatnot and then your immune system can start reacting violently to that and resulting in autoimmune disorders and a lot of other things so herbalists have known for a long time that a lot of our health problems traced back to the GI tract and getting the health of the GI tract in order getting help the intestinal function is a key to having overall health I know that’s actually how I cured my chronic sinus problems that I had growing up after rounds and rounds right about it never didn’t be good and then is when I finally started working on my gut and do like some cleaning out my intestines again my Justin work better and eating healthier all of it cleared up you know and I think a lot of that had to do with I didn’t realize it but I was also balancing out my microbiome in my gut one last question is were close to the top of the hour I just wanted to know about how do you get around I’m thinking about weight loss products and such they always have to say it’s not FDA approved that hasn’t been gone through if any rigorous testing and such so you always have to put an asterisk by any type of ailment that get fixed and what have you do you see that on your end dealing with a lot of herbs where if you don’t if you’re not credentialed with the the mainstream stamp of approval you won’t get you won’t be seen anything like well the whole herb industry is hampered by the fact that you can’t make any real claims about what herbs do directly well and actually for years a large part of my income was producing third-party educational materials for a major herb company and I just got told you know by their legal department looks just like about four or five months ago that the FDA was coming down on them and saying you have to shut down people who are writing about your products third party or we’re gonna sue you and which means they would have to turn around sue me and and I so because I wanted a good relationship with them I had to close it down you you you can teach people about herbs and supplements generically because it’s freedom of speech but when you step over into talking about a specific product and you’re talking about how that can help you know people to get well from various illnesses the FDA considers that crossing line and so you really it really makes it hard to share what we know you understand right right and so I have to keep what I do education why is very separate from what I do collect wise and I have to be very careful about what I say about products when I’m recommending them clients too you know I have to speak mostly in structure-function terms and energetic terms and and not directly address the idea of working on illness they have its it it hampers this interest if we didn’t exist under that legal climate we would grow by leaps and bounds well if we were able if we were able to make you know legitimate claims based on good you know research not wild stuff but I mean even just historical data you know and the existing literature on a lot of herbs we would be lightyears ahead of where we are now yeah absolutely I feel that we only you think on the David I’ll say no that’s a big money tree out there so you know why anyway no though at one point five trillion dollar junk food industry and the one point five drill trillion-dollar drug industry kind of feed off of one another Johnny Marr is I want back or yeah on that note it feels like we’ve only scratched the surface with just your depth of information could you give some website and your Facebook and Prudential so people can learn more information about – well I’m in the process when Saleh dating all my websites into one and so the best website to go to is steven horn calm my name STV and hor any you can actually if you google my name my websites come up like three or four of the fight you know fight for secure references this is really easy to find me with my name is Steve Warren and I’m I’m the herb guy on Facebook so you can look me up that way too long or looking up a Steven phone on Facebook okay it’s been a pleasure and you guys have just been in tune to another great podcast with us horn this has the intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective I am Hamza and I am David and thanks again for all of your great information we’d love to have you in future episodes thanks so much Steve yeah thank you for having me I really enjoy talking with you well thank you yes great good conversation thank you thanks again for checking out another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeless perspective podcast please check us out on our website at intrinsic motivation dot life where you can click on the speak pipe button and leave any suggestions for a future podcast that you’d like us to cover also check us out on our social media sites we have a YouTube channel Facebook page iTunes podcast in addition to stitcher and Google Play all under intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective check you out next time have a great day you