Intrinsic Motivation from a Homie’s Perspective (00:00:02):
Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening everybody out there in podcast land, you are in tuned to another episode of intrinsic motivation. From a homies perspective, this is Hamza and today we are going to help you find your life’s mission. What does that mean? Did you know you even had a mission? Are you in the middle of the mission and didn’t know about it or are you starting from scratch? We’ll get those questions and much more answered by the author of helping you. The way of the heart. Is there a website and their book is the caravan of remembering the author is Daniel. Good enough? Without further ado, I’d like to welcome you to the podcast. Welcome Daniel.
Daniel Goodenough All right. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. So I’m thinking pseudonym, I could be wrong, but Daniel Good enough. Does that mean that you have to have faith and believe that you’re good enough so that you can actually go and find your life’s mission? Huh? Well, it is actually a family name and it has had me because that’s been my family name. I’ve certainly had an opportunity to contemplate what being good enough might mean. I think a licensing is for everyone where the, whenever you start by believing you’re good enough or not the way you still have the reason for being here.
Intrinsic Motivation from a Homie’s Perspective (00:01:30):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think what we was a lot of people are the feedback that I get from previous podcasts and even with guests is that they were going down one path in life and then something major happened and then that major happenstance put them on the path that they felt they were always led to live. Is that a typical scenario that linear and then a fork in the road or does everyone have different life missions or ways of finding that?
Daniel Goodenough (00:02:05):
Well, it does. I suppose it can happen that way. My personal approach and stance after dedicating my life to the question of how do you help people remember why they’re here and actually step into and embody it? Is that it, it’s a skill development thing actually. Like anything else in life, if you want to become an elite athlete, there are practices that you would want to do daily. If you want him to become an elite musician, there’d be scales to do every day. And it’s an unfortunate thing that our culture has questioned, you know our culture in many ways was built by the industrial age in which people were educated to be cogs in the machine, you know, work on the assembly line and they actually didn’t want you to think that you had a life mission. You know, not to sound like conspiracy, but there wasn’t a lot of incentive to have people explore deeply the question.
Daniel Goodenough (00:03:06):
However, in the age we’re living in where the average graduating high school senior might expect to have on the plus side of 15 different careers in their lifetime, it’s probably a good idea to get clear about why you’re here. So I would define the life’s mission in its first aspect of why are you here? What does that call you to do? And who does that call you to be, what that causes you to do? I would call the outer life session and who that cause you to be the who would be the inner life mission and the, what you do changes who you are, which changes what you do. It changes who you are. So they’re in a connected and the who is the only thing you’re going to take with you. So there’s a who you were meant to become by stepping into your reason for being here.
Daniel Goodenough (00:03:53):
And really the best way, maybe the only way to become that who you came to be is by doing the, what you came to do. So that’s the question to explore. And I suppose, yeah, there’s a few. They’re lucky. There’s some lucky people who happen upon it. Usually it doesn’t happen by default. And as, and as much as it’s a skill development, it’s when we train people to develop the skill. Like anything else that’s important in life, there are skills to practice. You absolutely, everyone can know why they’re here and it’s not a onetime aha moment. There is, it’s a unfold unfolding, evolving, developing why that then becomes an unfolding, developing what given the timer in and that and the rapid change that w our culture is going through in our, the employment scene is going to in the economic scene is going through all those parameters, create triggers that come into being and go out of being sometimes within a five year span.
Daniel Goodenough (00:04:54):
So our ability to be clear about why we’re here and how to apply it to a rapidly changing landscape turns it down to a skill development. I’d be happy to go more into what, what are some of the scales to practice to become skillful at knowing why you’re here and then body skill and development. I am so confused right now Daniel. I thought I was supposed to read one book and then my life would be changed forever. There’s no microwave solution to this problem. Well in a way you could say it’s a one book. Read the caravan and remembering the caravan and remembering is, is the weekend process that we’ve been doing for somewhere between 20 and 30 years in person with people to make it available for someone to use at home. And it has, those scales are embedded in the story so that you have the experience of you getting tuned to someone else working through the process.
Daniel Goodenough (00:05:54):
It’s fiction, but you get the idea, somebody working the process and the scales are in the back of the book. So it’s a way of laying out the, here’s the process you want to, you want to get clear about your life’s mission, the why, the what and the who do the practices. I absolutely guarantee, I promise if you do the practices, you will know you your reason for being here. And it is a skill development thing. So yet you could probably read one book and so then you’d have to do the practices, but you don’t become an elite musician in a weekend and you don’t become an elite athlete in a year. So if it takes you a, a few, usually people six months to two years tops, that they’re pretty much on path and then it’s an ongoing thing. Pablo Casals in his nineties got up and did three hours of scales every day to be one of the preeminent, maybe the preeminent cello player in the world.
Daniel Goodenough (00:06:49):
And after being the preeminent, preeminent cello player in the world for decades and decades and decades, probably for 60 years, he still got up into three hours and scales every day. So the idea is if you’re want to be really good at anything, it’s not a chore to do your scales. It actually builds the passion. It actually builds as week become more masterful and a process, the depth and breadth of that process becomes more interesting. We become a more integrate, the more facets of our life integrate into this thing we call a mission. And by the way, life mission isn’t just a career. You have a family life mission and a relationship life mission and possibly a community life mission. And, Oh yes, you also have a career life mission and probably a spiritual life mission. And you know, all facets of our life are included in this. It’s not just a job.
Intrinsic Motivation from a Homie’s Perspective (00:07:43):
Absolutely. And so as you were talking, it made me think of the story about the cobbler has no shoes or the hairdresser doesn’t have a comb. And in growing with the good enough’s, was it all you guys were on one accord or was it the total opposite where you had to uncover how you had to develop this skill development?
Daniel Goodenough (00:08:07):
Well, I I actually don’t remember not knowing my life’s mission. And so it’s been as whatever point that is that you’re aware, you’re aware. I was, I had this sense of calling that I would share to help people do their life’s mission. I did see my parents and other people going off and doing jobs they hated, couldn’t understand why anyone would do that. So my parents were normal in that regard, regard that they did a job because the story at the time is you get a job that pays decent money, you know, middle class life, buy a house, support your family, you know, and you know, that’s a good thing, except that they didn’t enjoy the job they went to to pay the bills and buy the house from the car and support their family. And I just knew that that wasn’t the false story and that we were meant to enjoy our work.
Daniel Goodenough (00:09:02):
And so it’s been a lifelong pursuit by parents. We’re of that generation where the deal was get yourself a nice, saved, safe job, raise your family. And that’s the deal in life. And a lot of those people that trusted their life and their livelihood and their family to their companies have in our recent past, found themselves laid off. You know, the promise of lifetime employment. It’s not a thing anymore and you have a whole career is going away. So yeah, it’s time for the skeleton, paying for people to, for our culture to recognize perhaps and perhaps engage the the idea that it could be a good thing for our culture and our, and the world to say that, you know, and is my vision that the world takes it seriously. That every human being is here for a reason. And anytime any one of us Bell’s a reason for being here, we all lose.
Daniel Goodenough (00:09:58):
And anytime, anywhere, any person says yes to why they’re here and the exploration and the journey that we all gain in some way. So that was my lifelong quest to say, how do you do that? And I discovered it’s a, it’s a skill like anything else in life and we can train it and people can learn it and people can be very clear both on why their, why, what and who right now and how it’s going to change, what’s being called for and how to, how to dance with our times. And the second level of that is that is the, how the first level is the why, what new, which is a caravan. And remembering black in the next book will be all about the how do you do that? The third level of that is how do, what’s the manner in which you do that in which I integrate. We have, we talk about integrating
Daniel Goodenough (00:10:46):
The way of doing your life slash mission. The manner in which you do that in integrating the value spheres of the good that you’re in beautiful are integrating art, science and spirit. So you’re doing your life’s mission artfully beautifully sacredly and skillfully science being a skillfully part.
Intrinsic Motivation from a Homie’s Perspective Absolutely. I want to get your take for just a slight topical question cause you’re talking about the manner that we integrate and you’re mentioning that generations pass. We’re doing something that they didn’t like. And a couple of weeks ago Koby Bryant had transcended and he was living a life that everyone thought, you know, he’d be 90 a hundred whatever years old and he’s not here. So I guess I want to get your take because it’s really scary that some people are living the lives that they don’t really like. And your time may be up before you even know it.
Daniel Goodenough (00:11:46):
Yeah, that’s there is that famous phrase, I think it was came from pant Angelese that you don’t want to die with your music still in you. And there is this thing, like I said, that the, the what you’re here to do is meant to transform you as you said. So that there’s a who yachts you came to be and you get there by doing the, what you came to do because you get transformed by what you do. Either way, if you do the why’d you came to do or if you don’t do the, what you came to do, either way you’re being transformed the way that, and either you’re being transformed in the direction of resignation or, or something maybe less pleasant than even resignation, or you’re being transformed into all chemical inspiration and the alchemically chemically inspired act creates something different in us.
Daniel Goodenough (00:12:40):
You know, the alchemists talked about churning our carbon-based nature into gold. So metaphorically the, you know, the idea of making our life golden as that expression. When people say I’m golden, that there’s this idea that when you become the who you do the what and you become the who, that’s what you’re going to take with you. What Colby Bryan took with him was the, the who he became, you know, the mistakes he made and the nectaries he had and you know, he had a mixed blessing, you know, yet he had some, he had some trouble along the way, you know, and that’s all part of the deal. We all have that. So our transcending our circumstance, our transcending our mistakes are stepping fully into our reasons for being here and, and making mistakes there too. All of that. The people we work with, the people we don’t work with, all of that says it has a piece in creating who we are.
Daniel Goodenough (00:13:37):
And it’s the only thing we’ll take with us when we leave this plane of existence. The only thing we’re gonna take with us is the who we become. Everything else gets left line. And I think it was Roger balls who said the three life conditions are number one. Remember the one that sent you. Number two, make the world a better place for having done here. Then number three, do the thing you most love to do and the people you most love to do it with and the place you most love to do it in the manner you’d most love to do it in a way the world most needs that done. And if you do that, then when you leave this place, it won’t really matter like your life mission is in the product. It’s not a, well, if you did this, you’re done. You’re never done.
Daniel Goodenough (00:14:19):
I think it was Rumi that said, if you’re still here and you’re not done. So it’s an ongoing, it’s a process, not a product. And you know, I like to say that if you thought your life’s mission was to build a bridge across the grand Canyon and you died when you were half when the bridge was halfway across, did you failed in your life’s mission? No. If as long as you’re engaged in the process, as long as you’re engaged in the question, why am I here? Why does that call me to do? Who does that call me to become? And you’re in the inquiry everyday and you’re engaged in that process, then you’re doing your life’s mission. It’s not a product. It’s [inaudible]. You have to build a business. If you do, that’s great. It’s not about having to build a retreat center or create a product or I don’t know, get someone elected for office, whatever it might be. If that’s your life mission, great. As long as you’re in the process, then you’re doing your life’s mission. It’s not about the result.
Speaker 2 (00:15:11):
So without talking about politics or anything like that, we’re talking about transcending our circumstance and there’s a lot of uncertainty. And when you ask about the what and the who, what do I do to integrate this, then there has to be some type. There has to be a catalyst potentially to get you to get on your life path. So would you say all this uncertainty people should embrace because that’s what’s making our, our internal outcome, our chemical transformation.
Speaker 1 (00:15:42):
I would absolutely say we should, that it’s a more empowered, more creative. I’m more likely to succeed. Let’s say context for life to embrace uncertainty. Life is an open system. Life actually is chaos. Order in many ways. Can, can
Speaker 1 (00:16:05):
Make a solution. Unlikely. So what the catalyst though, you know, I’d say that doing your scales are a catalyst. So maybe I should give a few examples. So you know, in the exploration, in the scales, you could say, if you look at your childhood and you say, what were your favorite toys? What were your favorite movies? What are your favorite stories? What are your favorite sports? What are your favorite places? What were your favorite activities? Who were your heroes? And you could say that it’s not about your answer so much as why were they your favorites? You know, when you think about the movies that were your favorites, why did they cut you in that way? You know, cause we don’t all have the same favorite movies. So why were they your favorite then you saying sports, your activities, your heroes, why were they your heroes?
Speaker 1 (00:16:54):
And that’s a great question to ask about your childhood. It’s also a great question to ask about now as an adult, you know, cause we have the adult version of toys, we called them cars and perhaps the instruments or certain kinds of tech, you know, that we have our adult versions of those childhoods toys. So your favorite toys, your favorite cars, you know, your favorite tech pieces, your favorite equipment if you’ve played, if you’re a musician why are they your favorites and the stories in the movies lab and it and the heroes you have that, why are they your favorites? Some other questions might be if you could spend a day with anyone alive or dead, real or fictional, who would it be and why? And the, and the real question is why. And when people go to it, when you go to a big box book store that has all the category, where do you go first?
Speaker 1 (00:17:44):
Every single time. And when I’ve asked this for thousands of people and in every, it’s pretty much true that every time that they go to the big box bookstore, there’s one or two categories of books that they always go to first. So what is that? And it’s not that, again, it’s not about the what, it’s the why. Why, why do you go there? What is it? What’s there for you? Another couple of scales is what’s the question at the center of your life and also then, what’s the question your life has meant to be the answer to? You know, God, I’m a Buddha. Woke up, not because he was trying to wake up, he did, his realization came because he was looking for the answer to a question for, he’s looking for the answer for questions and he made them the center of his life.
Speaker 1 (00:18:26):
And in the process he woke up, the question was, why did we grow all of the, why do we get sick and why do we die? And there was another way, but he was looking for the answers to those questions and being all in on those questions and putting that the center of his life became his life’s mission. So that works for some people. And you know, by the way, if you’re all in and your license and it’s a, it’s a great help in waking up because it will bring you up against everything between you and the one that sent you. It’s custom designed because you’re, you’re unique like a snowflake and a fingerprint. You’re totally unique and because you’re unique, your life’s mission was completely designed to bring you up against everything that’s between you and waking up. So it’s amongst other things, it’s a pastor waking up.
Speaker 1 (00:19:13):
If you’re all in on it, cause it, and you could say what fascinates you. And by the way, that’s also a great question. What wakes you up? Because what wakes you up is the very same thing that makes other people afraid and go to sleep. So why does that wake you up when I would scare someone else? When are you most confident when you most alive? You know, there are thousands of questions like that. I think I’ve collected about 5,000 or so scales. The point is if you’re doing the scales and you’re doing them consistently, you start to get a really clear picture of what’s transpiring behind what the peers in the way you think about yourself and the way you think about the world and the way you interact with people and the why of that and what that why is calling you to do and kind of the direction of who you are you’re being called to become and who you, who. You will need to be calm to step into that. And you know, as our times are changing, the answers to those questions evolve. So it’s like I said, it’s not a onetime realization.
Speaker 1 (00:20:15):
So hopefully there you go. Go ahead. No, that helps. But I have to ask, are the wisest people on the planet two and three year olds? That’s the only question he asked is why? Yeah. Well that doesn’t make them the smartest beings on the planet. It makes them a blank slate. There are no, and they’re trying, they’re asking why to figure it out. The problem with us is we stopped asking why [inaudible] we, we split. We start to get conditioned, if you will, we start following the story of our time were inculturated and we, instead of staying with the inquiry, we take the answers of our culture. You know, by and large, 70% of the people currently employed are actively disengaged in their job. Another 20% are passively disengaged in less than 10% are actively excited about their work. So when you get 70% of a population of the workforce active, actively disengaged,
Speaker 3 (00:21:29):
Speaker 1 (00:21:29):
In their work, you can only say that that’s a consequence of an education that discounted any idea of aligning your work with your reason for being here, your why, your meaning. And it’s such a shame because it’s a skill that anyone could learn and it would be good if we started training people to do it, to learn that skill. Like the other things we learned to become a responsible, let’s say a responsible. So that’s an honor way to becoming an advanced, an
Speaker 3 (00:22:02):
Speaker 2 (00:22:03):
Hmm. How do you break the conditioning from 70% of the workforce being in disengage versus before they embarked on those careers? Part of their decision was the conditioning of how much am I going to get paid by doing this? How do you break that? That’s, that’s [inaudible]
Speaker 1 (00:22:27):
That’s a little bit of an oxymoron in our time because how much am I going to get paid for doing? This is a, has been traditionally gauged by what we think the industry will pay. And in our time, an entire industry can go away in five years. So if you stake your life on an industry and you take your education on an industry and you say it’s all, I’m all in on that, and then you find the industry either goes away or replaces you with AI, then what do you do? So the real solution to this is trained people, give people the skilled training people in the skill of knowing their why, knowing their why, their what in the who. And then the how is facilitated by knowing the why. Why, because then you’re in charge. Then you are, you have a way, if I’m going to reinvent myself, what’s going to be the basis for reinventing myself?
Speaker 1 (00:23:22):
Whether it’s reinventing myself within a company that’s going through major transformation or reinventing myself, moving from domain to domain of work. The I, the answer always comes back to becoming skillful and knowing your why, what, no, and that’s a, that’s a process and it’s learnable by anyone. You know, some of those questions I gave as examples are just some of many. And the caravan are remembering, there’s about a hundred of those questions of scales embedded in the story that shows you how to use them. There are more you can work the PRI, we have we’ve set up the caravan conversations that community for people to work the process when people virtually around the world on zoom, you know, it’s, you know, so it’s great to have a community of practice. I’m working with companies now to for opera level, executive level and also frontline workers.
Speaker 1 (00:24:21):
You know, people on the, on the front lines minimum wage shots. And what I’ve always found is that when you, you could be actively disengaged in a job and the minute you engage in this conversation, the the hopelessness of the resignation goes away. And you know that you might decide that you can up level yourself within the company by reinventing yourself. Or maybe it doesn’t matter cause you’re clear about, you start to get clear about what, what you’re here for, the why and the what you’re here for and what that’s calling you to do and who you’re being called to become. And as who you are becomes anchored in and within the context and invested in the one you came to do. And your big why is your life, the job you’re currently doing becomes less of a thing. You’re not discouraged by it anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:25:15):
You know, it’s temporary or it’s not temporary, you know, you’ll up level it. So the biggest antidote and we found it and I found that in the companies I’ve worked with, the biggest antidote to the act of disengagement is when the company actively engages in helping their employees get clear about their why, not why they should work for them, just their wife or their life. Cause it always, you know like the companies that have invested in this are showing a significant percent of gain in the marketplace. I mean I’ve heard outrageous numbers. I am not quite sure how that gets backed up, but as many as a 300% increase in their business. The one case I heard of 394% increase in their business by investing in their employees life mission. So I’m not sure about those numbers. I am sure though that when you, when you invest in your employees life mission, they return the favor.
Speaker 2 (00:26:12):
It makes me think of a age old quote or not the age old question, but you hear more and more of this now, especially in the science realm about a generalist versus a specialist. And would you put all your eggs in one basket? Being a specialist, knowing five years, that industry may go away. How do you approach the generalist versus specialist argument?
Speaker 1 (00:26:36):
Well, I like to say that our life’s mission is that our agreement with the one that sent us, so we’re here for a why and it dances with the times we find ourselves in. When Joseph Campbell was talking about follow your bliss, he wasn’t saying, you know, have a good time and everything will work out for you. Are you saying your bless would come by engaging the question and taking the hero’s journey? So that journey of the dance with our culture, the times we find ourselves in Joseph Campbell talked about the nature of the hero’s journey and the blueprint that that mythic blueprint was pointing to is saying that we all have to take, we all have to apply that to who we are in the times we live. So generalist so there’s, you might say divers and scanners, I think Deborah shared talked about divers and scanners.
Speaker 1 (00:27:31):
Divers are people that go all the way into one thing and they do the one thing for their entire life. As you mentioned, those kinds of opportunities becomes scarcer and scarcer. So now most of us are, most of the jobs are for scanners and scanners are people who might go all the way into one thing. You know, if serial scanners might go all the way into one thing for three years and then go all the way into something else for three years and then something else for five years, and that is kind of perfect for our times because you might only have a job for three years and the company might go out of business or their whole career, that job description may go out of might fit, go out of existence, or it might be that you just grew and wanted to change and you, you entered a different profession every three years.
Speaker 1 (00:28:14):
That’s for scanners. There’s the other, there’s, then there’s what we call it, simultaneous scanners and, and many people in the arts are simultaneous scanners. If somebody is a high creative, they’re a high creative. So they might do multiple things at the same time deeply. They might be a musician and an artist and a designer and they might design clothes, they might design furniture. They might be, you know, like they might be a writer, they might be, they might be in the performance arts and they might be many of those all at the same time. And the life mission view from the scanner is you don’t have to pick one. You don’t have to say, well I love all these things. How do I decide? And it could be you might be an artist and you might be a scientist. I was part of a government scientific research project that I was hired for because I had a fine arts degree.
Speaker 1 (00:29:07):
So you know, there are many things in this world that are that sit outside the box of the way we were told that career thing has, has to go. So the idea is you follow the, you stay in the conversation, you keep it, you stay in the inquiry, you do your scales every day and you get clear and clear about, it’s not a onetime answer. You do this, these, answer these questions today. And two, two weeks from now, you answer me again, you’ll probably answer them differently. And if you ask me a year from now and five years from now, the answers will be different. And that’s what helps you actually anticipate the changes coming and you actually then prepare yourself for the changes that are coming so that you, you, you get the, the wave that’s really moving through and you start to say, in my re-invention I’m starting now.
Speaker 1 (00:29:55):
So it might be that you can go deeply into something for your whole life. There are fewer and fewer of those opportunities. It might be for our time more advisable to be present to how you were wired. What does that say about the way you can dance with maybe simultaneous diving simultaneously into a number of things skillfully and elegantly so that you can dance with the rapid change of our time so that a breadth and depth might be both a possibility and you know, bless those hearts, bless the hearts of the people who can actually be a diver for their whole life. You know, there are a few of those occupations left, but not many. Let’s hope that you are, your dive is a deep dive of it’s about marriage and relationship. You know, hopefully you’re not a scanner there, although you know, I shouldn’t say who’s the judge. Maybe that’s perfect for some people, but you know, it’s like when people make a commitment to each other that the taught that that’s a commitment to dive deeply. Maybe your relationship with spirit can be a scanner kind of thing. It’s good to have a commitment to at least in some level go deeply with that. So divers and scanners, maybe we are all both.
Speaker 2 (00:31:15):
So with the diver and scanner model, are you seeing a trend of people differing settling down, having children like generations pass because they have this employee life mission or life mission that they feel they want to achieve on some level before settling down?
Speaker 1 (00:31:38):
I think that’s true for some people because the nature of our time might say that the old story that said you had to do the family thing by such and such an age and you know, you had to make that sacrifices and that’s a fairly true for everyone. And for some people that’s the perfect thing. And for some people to wait to pursue a life mission first might be the way, you know, you get clear about that too because it’s the relationship and family is a kind of life mission, career as a kind of life mission. All those things are part of the larger conversation of your why and your what and your old. And I think some of the reasons, you know, according to the New York times and the wall street journal, the main reason people are putting off, settling down, marrying and having kids first is it’s more about the economics that there’s a trend for young people now and even, you know, middle aged people to say, let’s say it’s a second marriage or something. They marry their partner until both people are out of debt. So, you know, part of that second NAMEC we have it, we live in a time where the disparity of the rich and poor is the greatest discrepancy ever. And for all time. And
Speaker 1 (00:32:57):
There’s a lot of people who invested again, because of the nature of the economy, a huge amount of monies, huge amounts of money and student debts and they’re making a commitment to not marry and start the whole family thing until all the students are paid. And that wasn’t a factor to the same degree earlier in earlier generation. So in terms of a life mission, I think people have more feel, they have more permission now to delay that if especially if they’re feeling called to a particular life’s mission. So I think that’s there. I think primarily though that’s about finances. Sure. I’m also thinking in the middle of that question where there were 20 somethings and they decided to defer to live their life purpose and just like Coby and I guess everyone else on the planet, where’d the time go? And so now they’re approaching middle age, like ah, I think I wouldn’t have kids. Now. How can I, with all I have going on, I’m sure you deal with those folks as well.
Speaker 1 (00:34:07):
Yeah, well I think that they’re catching a little bit of a break because due to advances in science having a family a little bit later is more of a possibility for more people. So there’s that. I th having the, having a clear inquiry and a regular inquiry about the why, what, who I was, people be really clear. And if it’s a, if it’s an ongoing dialogue, you won’t find that the year slipped away and you don’t know what happened. Usually these years slip away and you don’t know what happened because you’re not in the inquiry. If you’re in the conversation, if you’re asking consistently these kinds of questions that help you know, help you know,
Speaker 1 (00:34:56):
Not only your why, but how your why is applies to the life we are engaged with now from the social to the political, to the economic, to the global climate change situation, to religious politics like the whole enchilada. How does my, why apply to that and what’s my piece of that? And then what does that call me to do and then who am I becoming? And then what’s the, how that’s downline from that and how do I do it artfully beautifully sacredly and skillfully. And it’s not about some perfect result. It’s just being in the process. And if you’re in the engaged in those questions, it’s unlikely that a decade goes away and you don’t know what happened. That happened because people stopped asking the questions and went on autopilot. That can happen in a 45 minute commute to work. You can get in the car and go on autopilot and arrive at work and you have no idea how you got there.
Speaker 1 (00:36:00):
But that can happen for a decade. So in both cases it’s can you be present? And these questions help you stay engaged and help you stay present to your life and to the people in it and your place in life. And also it’s less discouraging cause you’re clear about what’s your thing to do. There are people who do very magnanimous things, very philanthropic things that result in making the situation worse than before. They tried to help simply because it wasn’t there to do. So if it’s not your life’s mission, then donate the money to the people who it is for whom it is. Their life’s mission goes a little, do it better and they won’t make the situation worse. Like so much of the philanthropic work like in Africa where they, they needed a well and they put a well in the only place in town that women can’t go to.
Speaker 1 (00:36:57):
And women are the ones who gather the water. So how did that help that community? You know, that’s just one example of well-meaning help but not really engage deeply enough because it wasn’t theirs to do. They just threw some money at it and said, I think that’ll help. And so the question is, what’s your to do? And if you’re all in and what you is yours to do, then you’ll make that difference in the world. So you don’t, you don’t have to rush off to Africa and you don’t have to do a lot of the things that you know then you know, the, the mystical picture, if you do a life mission and it has to be this big thing, you know, there’s the proverbial story of the hotdog vendor who’s just so in his or her life mission that he or she transforms everyone who buys a hotdog.
Speaker 1 (00:37:42):
You know, that might be pushing it. But I totally get that. That could be possible. Sometimes saying the right three or four words at the right time can make a huge difference in someone’s life. So it’s just being clear and staying in the conversation. So you don’t find that decades went by and you didn’t know what happened. And if you’re engaged in that conversation, it’s time to have a family. You’ll know that. I have a question about being clear. I mean that is a term that some groups use. Are you a part of that group?
Speaker 1 (00:38:19):
I doubt it. I’m not a the Dianetics thing. I forget what that’s called. Yeah. Not part of that. No. I mean the hard work of asking the questions are the engaged, the, you know, the Harding while no, it’s, it’s rewarding and it’s fulfilling and it, you still have to show up to the, to the pad of paper or your computer or whatever you’re, you know, working the questions out and if you stay engaged in the conversation, you’d say a sense of rightness and merges to the emerging principle. So it’s not that any one of the, you know, when I say there are literally thousands of those questions and if you ask them every time the answer could be different, there isn’t any one question that’s going to reveal for you, your reason for being here. Probably I should never say never, but it’s unlikely that it’s going to be one question.
Speaker 1 (00:39:21):
It’s more likely it’s going to be something that emerges from asking many questions multiple times and allowing them to marinate in your unconscious and your consciousness. Allow yourself to live the question and then it becomes an emergent, like a solution to a problem. You know, like a, a what we call an epiphany. You know, and eternity enters into time. That’s what the word epiphany means. So, you know, we have this illusion that science has marched forward to rational thinking and it only has moderately March forward through rational thinking. Mostly it’s, it’s March forward to epiphany where great thinkers using rational processes beat their head against the wall for years, sometimes not finding an answer. And then the answer comes when they’re taking a shower or out on a bike rider on the Lake on the weekend or something. And when they finally gave their brain arrest, when they finally surrendered their figuring done, the epiphany drops in and that’s how science has moved forward.
Speaker 1 (00:40:26):
And your life mission is a lot like that. You can’t figure out your life’s mission if you stay in the question though and live the question at a certain point. And it may be while you’re taking a shower, you’ll have an epiphany about that. And again though, it’s not a onetime epiphany, it’s an epiphany of all. That’s why and all that’s what we’re doing now. Or that’s who I would need to be to do this or that’s who I’m being called to become or move in the direction of. But that’s only for, you know, that’s an insight that’s helpful right now. And there might be a new why Watson, who, you know, your wife stays pretty consistent, but the how, the what you’re called to do about that transformed as our world transforms. So what you’re called to do about that might work perfectly this year and next year you’ll need to do it differently. And that also emerges and usually ahead of the curve because you stay engaged in the question.
Speaker 2 (00:41:22):
So I’m going to go back cause I want to use these two archetypes with the philanthropic person and the hotdog owner. So philanthropic that put the waterhole in the middle of town. Obviously that was a a Nova, like the only example of Nova gone to Latin America and they didn’t sell. So how do you continue like this is what’s yours to do. Well, it didn’t work this time. Do you, and I’ve gotten my millions by like you said, I kept asking the question so that philanthropic person are wrong because of that initial error or should they continue?
Speaker 1 (00:41:57):
No, I’d say that first of all, the idea that they made millions but may have nothing to do with their life, their reason for being here. In fact, I’ve worked with a billionaire, I’ve worked with people who are very successful billionaire in one case who starts 200 200 companies a year, makes vast amounts of money. And when we did the life issue work, he was not doing what he came to do. And I find that a lot just because you’re successful, you can be, you can be successful, you can be doing good things in the world, you could be happy with your family, you could be doing, it could be touching all the bases for the cell called good life. And so not be doing anything that you came to do. It’s, as Rumi said, if a kid as if a King sent you to a foreign land and you did 10,000 things, but not the one thing you were sent to though it says if you’ve done nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:42:54):
Now that’s a little harsh. I would say that’s maybe too harsh. But I, I, there’s a point there, right, that if you had an employee and you’re essentially employee and you know, to to do something and they went out and they did a hundred things and not the one thing you asked them to do, you wouldn’t be happy about that. So if you can see, and I found that in many, many cases that people are very successful. They’ve made good money and they have a nice house, a nice car. They’re happy with their family, you know, they have a nest egg, they have all the markers for the good life and when it comes down to it, none of it has anything to do with why they were here. Now if you have all those things, you have the resources to change. If you don’t feel like you’re in the golden handcuffs, but you know, that’s between now and the one that sent them.
Speaker 1 (00:43:41):
I’m just saying that just because someone is successful doesn’t mean that they’re doing their life’s mission by any means. And usually, you know, if they are, that’s a lucky that’s a lucky break because it usually doesn’t happen by default just because you like your work and a lot of very rich people don’t even like their work. They just like the money. Well, let’s say you do just because you like it doesn’t mean that it’s your reason for being here. I, you know, I had a very successful musical career. I got my fine arts degree on a scholarship. I was very good at a number of things, none of which were my reason for being here. And I talked to a lot of people who are really good with money, who became a countenance and hate being an accountant. So just because you’re talented doesn’t mean it’s what you’re supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (00:44:30):
It might be used in service to your reason for being here, but it says that talent doesn’t mean that’s your life mission just because you’re good at it. A lot of people are doing things they were good at and I wasn’t their life mission and it doesn’t make them happy so that philanthropists who had lots of money and then put the well in the, in the one place that the people that only the women can go to for water, except women can’t go. There might just be another indication of how they became rich. They became rich and it has nothing to do with why they’re here and it’s just might be a center, you know, and and, and chest might and it might be the totally on their life mission and they just thought it would be a good idea. They felt like, well they need water.
Speaker 1 (00:45:15):
Let me help them out because I can do that. Great. If that would would’ve been, that money would have been better invested in people who do that, who know what they’re doing, you know, slow down, ask the question I feeling called to do this is this mine to do? If it’s not mine to do and I have the resources to support it, I might take just a little bit more time and find out who would help that result in a consequence that had the consequence I was looking for. You know, and if you, if you’re a high rational achiever and you’ve made lots of money, you might go, I know how to do this and I’ll just go do this, but it might not be yours to do and so do it again. Doing your skills would help, you know that’s not yours to do. You’d be clear about what is yours to do and the good things you want to have happen in the world. You would help other people for whom it is their life’s mission to do that. And there’s no shortage of good causes to contribute to. You know, I was easily 15 years ago and I checked the internet, there were more than a million philanthropic organizations listed on the internet. There’s no shortage of good paint projects happening out there. So if it’s not yours to do and you feel like it’s important, contribute the money to the people for whom it is theirs to do. And if it is yours to do and it’s your life mission, then go do it. Okay. Doing the Scouts help, you know that difference
Speaker 2 (00:46:41):
I want to do, I want to play the hot dog guy now, so I’m a child. What do I, what do I like doing? What’s her favorite place? I don’t know. Hotdog university. My favorite movie was super hot dog heroes and my, my dad was in the hotdog family. Everybody in my community, they have some hot dog stands throughout the state. So we have the family check Mark, community check Mark. We all go to the same church and we worship hot dogs. My wife loves hot dogs, right?
Speaker 1 (00:47:18):
For how that might work. As you see it, you see a movie where people are creating great, you know, significant changes in their community working behind the counter at a diner. Or maybe they’re they’re the janitor in a school, you know, the aunt romantic jobs. And you see, and you see these movies and you read these stories about people in those positions that are transforming lives, sometimes saving lives. You know, and I just heard a story today where people were talking about being radically transformed by the, by the janitor in their high school. You know, so it might be you grew up seeing movies like that, hearing stories like that. Maybe you encountered a coach that you know in, in a not so romantic, a small high school, and yet you are transformed by the possibility that somebody’s doing a job that didn’t seem like a, let’s shake up and transform the world job trends and shaking up and transforming lives.
Speaker 1 (00:48:26):
And then you are, you, maybe your circumstance has you being a hotdog salesperson, but it doesn’t mean it’s about being a hot dog. Sounds. I mean, it means about where do I find myself. I’m in my life mission and you might, and you might be happy changing the lights you change and your hotdog business, but it wouldn’t mean that you grew up worshiping hot dogs. So you became a hotdog salesman necessarily. It means more like you find out it’s about service and you recognize service can show up anywhere. And maybe your opera, how you, where you found yourself was an opportunity to sell hotdogs and then you discovered I love it. So I like that. Well, yes and that’s where I was kind of going with the, of course going with the extremes, cause you were talking about integrating with the manner that we integrate and where I was going with that is, you know, I thought that was my life’s mission.
Speaker 1 (00:49:23):
My family, my wife, my parents, the community spiritual. And then one day I’m going to a hotdog conference and the flight gets delayed and I’d need a hamburger specialist. And I’m like, yeah, what is my life all about? I’ve been thinking about hot dogs and I’m so drawn to doing hamburgers. It was my life wasted. Well, you know, I think we get help, but I’m saying that that mostly happens to people who we haven’t been in the inquiry. Cause you say, I thought my life was, if you say, I thought my life was, and you get that thrown off, it’s because you weren’t in the inquiry. You were just living your life and because you’ve kind of enjoyed it, you said, well that’s must be what I was meant to do. And so you go to a hamburger conference and suddenly his hamburgers and that thought though, if you, if you’re in the conversation, if you’re engaged in an inquiry that doesn’t throw you because it doesn’t matter whether it’s hot dogs or hamburgers.
Speaker 1 (00:50:20):
The idea was why are you selling hot dogs or hamburgers? It’s not about the hot that’s about the hamburgers. It’s not a product. It’s the process. So either way you could say, well, you know, now I’m inspired by selling hamburgers because I get that now the opportunities for within the context of selling hamburgers speaks to my why in a way that gives me an opportunity to make more impact for transformation in myself, in my family and my community and the world. Maybe I’m mine selling a regenerative, regenerative agricultural hamburgers that are a solution to the climate change. You know that regenerative agriculture now is, is creating a situation where cattle can actually be the solution to see, you know, to carbon dioxide and methane in the air at raw. You know, like it’s the way of, it’s the industrial farming that could the problem, not the cow.
Speaker 1 (00:51:19):
So maybe you get that I’m going to sell socially responsible hamburgers and maybe I wasn’t feeling that way about hotdogs, but you know, there’s nothing wrong with that document is nothing wrong with hamburgers. And I made the change because of the, I’m clear about my context and so I get that I can be inspired by hamburgers and they can make the shift to hamburgers from hotdogs. So I could make the shift from working from this industry to another industry or for this employer to that employer without making anyone wrong. Just to say that I thought I was is usually a way of saying I wasn’t clear about anything. I was just on autopilot when people say I thought I was, and then they’re surprised by that. It’s because they were on autopilot usually. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:52:04):
Did I, thanks for humoring me with those examples. So, and the reason why I brought it up is I was thinking when you had mentioned root, roomy, you know a lot of the spiritual talk and you’re talking about the inner life mission on once. On one perspective you could say that it’s very individualized or you could be very lonely because if you know, this is what I was doing on autopilot and I was okay and now I’ve gotten exposed to something else that’s making me ask those questions. But now every, my whole family, community, spiritual, all that’s shaken, now it’s on shaky ground and they’re not seeing what I see. And if I don’t go back to that way, then I can’t be a part of that group. And I’ve been with them my whole life.
Speaker 1 (00:52:59):
Yeah. Wow. That is a consequence of art of a, well, it’s bad. And the consequence of a life on this planet that sometimes that awakening does mean that you’re previous implied agreements. You know, a lot of times we, we have implied agreements and explicit agreements and when, when we change, then that seems to violate the implied agreements for the most part. And so some of them might’ve been explicit. Most of them are usually implied. And yeah, that’s, that’s that’s can be a tough one. And it’s largely the the way the, the cultural constructs that we would, you know, that up until 400 years ago we lived in a, in a collapsed concrete literal mythic operating system worldwide so that whatever the culture was, it was concretized around a certain story. And that, because it was literal and it was concretized, it meant that the rules were pretty rigid and aside and religion and, and politics were collapsed together.
Speaker 1 (00:54:15):
And so that, you know, if you violated the Rose, you could be burned as a heretic and hung as a, a trader to your country, you know, and so then the industrial age enters in the rise of the merchant class and now we have the, after we went from traditional to modern and that, that way of doing business that that merchant class for high rational achiever mode has prevailed for little under 400 years. And now we have the lives or the plural mean and by the Pearl we need the power to convene such as Facebook and Google and Instagram and you know, and Andy and those kind of things. Twitter, you know, and so you have the rise of the plural mean. So now we have traditional modern and postmodern culture clash and
Speaker 1 (00:55:06):
Your life’s mission if you were embedded in any of those traditions, but you might find, well, if you’re embedded in any of those traditions, there is a good possibility it could be a contact with one of the other two or balls because it’s traditional, modern and postmodern. If you’re a postmodern, you might have a conflict with traditional and modern. If you’re modern, you might have conflict with traditional and postmodern, you know, like that. So yeah, it’s an issue that we have to confront in you. And one of the things that happens when you stay in the inquiry and do your practices and you really have done the work to have it in emergent, right? This is known. I know that. I know that. I know this is why I’m here. If you’d know that, and you don’t have to defend anything because you just know you’re more likely to be less invested in defending, he’s tending to the whatever the culture clashes, you’re less interested in defending, you know, that might be more problematic with your immediate family.
Speaker 1 (00:56:07):
It might be that you will have to step away from a certain community, but then there’ll be another community that you’re stepping into and it’s, you know, that you know that you know that this is where you’re being called to go. Then how can you stay, you know, say, what’s that saying? If you want to reach the new world, you have to be willing to lose sight of the shore for a certain period of time, you know? But the shore you left behind if you want to get to the new world. And sometimes it’s like if you know that you know that you know you’re being called in a certain direction, it’s like standing on the dock and there’s a boat that’s leaving in the direction of your calling and you’ve got one foot in the boat and one foot on the dock, what are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (00:56:50):
So it might be that, yes, you have to make a decision. If you’ve done the work, that decision won’t be hard. I mean, there’ll be hard because sometimes there’s some hard choices, but you’ll do it from your knowing and there’ll be less fear and doubt surrounding it. So I would never advocate anything in particular. It’s a person’s individual exploration in the conversation of their agreement with the one that sent them, whatever that means to them. And I said, that’s an F. It’s true that as Rumi said, if you can do the 10,000 things, you can have an amazing life, make lots of money, be generous, contribute to lots of causes, have, you know, love your family and your kids and your community and love all and then do the work and discover no, really, that was the 10,000 things and not the one thing. It doesn’t mean you have to drop all of them. Maybe you just add the one thing, you know, like it doesn’t have to be cold Turkey. Maybe there’s a transition or maybe it’s a both end. And sometimes that might work and you don’t have to, you know, burn, you know, burn down the house so to speak, with all your previous commitments and agreements. And maybe sometimes you’d, so if that would be something that you’d get clear about in your own conscience and yeah, sometimes the tough decisions come up.
Speaker 2 (00:58:08):
Yeah. that’s where I was going with the individual versus the collective because there’s strength in numbers sometimes. And if the numbers are like, let’s go back. Just your, even if it’s not there, you know, what do you do?
Speaker 1 (00:58:25):
Well, you have to be really certain. It’s, you have to have that South sense of knowing that I know that I know that I know and that that doesn’t happen unless you’ve done the inquiry to have the depth of knowing that you know, that you know, that you know, in spite of what anyone else tells you, it’s because you’ve done the, you’ve done the inquiry.
Speaker 2 (00:58:47):
It sounds to me, Daniel, that in addition to the caravan or remembering while a good template, it sounds like you also have classes and seminars that you promote.
Speaker 1 (00:58:58):
Yeah. Through the way of the heart. We do. Well, I go, as I mentioned earlier, I have, we have four levels of life, mission work that we do. The first one is what’s shared in the caravan remembering book, which is about the why are you here? What does that call you to do? And who’s that call you to, to become second level is if you’re now that you, you’re clear by your life’s mission, how do you do that? That’s, you know, upleveling your action vocabulary and those kinds of things. So that’s the second level of life finished. And the third level is the integration of art, science and spirit or the good that you’re in the beautiful. So that the manner in which you do it is actually beautifully sacredly and skillfully done. And then the fourth level of that is some of the work that we do with the general population.
Speaker 1 (00:59:43):
But then we, you know, we usually, we could, might start in with that with companies and expand that to all levels of life mission. So the fourth level of that is how do you, how do you scale that up in the world in a way that coal creates with the future that wants to happen without, without figuring that that sort of trends, rational knowing how do you apply that? So we have those. And then the more general quiet personal development classes and shadow work and dreamwork and healing work. And you know, those, all those other kinds of things are various offerings of the way of the heart. And you could, you could check those out on the way of the heart.com and the caravan and remembering what you can go to the caravan and remembering website available and all the ebook format. So iTunes, Kindle, nook, Kobo, it’s available on Amazon, it’s available at the cafe printers. And if you want it to work the process with others people you could go to the caravan conversation.community site and inquire about working with either starting a group in your community or working from people with other people. Could be anywhere in the world holding meetings and you know, working the past size by zoom and there’s a, there’s a newsletter, a likes mission newsletter. So those are some of the ways you could check it out.
Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
That’s phenomenal. And it sounds like it’s not, it’s only going and why would you stop when you use your, I just got started with the book and now I’m doing these classes. I mean, you keep the momentum going. It sounds like lifelong work.
Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah. Well the conversation is clubs because there’s 12 chapters in the book, tend to use a do a chapter a month and now there are people are, you know, and there’s their second and third year of, you know, they got so much out of the first year, they just signed up for another year of taking a chapter by chapter and engaged in the the life mission scales that are embedded in the story. They talk about them and they toss in an Island and take it a chapter at a time and it becomes embedded in their life that because they live the question for a month. So yeah, it’s ongoing.
Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
We love it. Love it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Mission quite inquiries should be ongoing for the rest of your life, like public and still doing the scales in his nineties. Right.
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Absolutely. Keep it going. Wow. And that time has flown. We are at the top of the hour. So I definitely loved, loved speaking with you. Let’s, let’s definitely stay in touch. You have a lot going on, and I think the audience that listens to this will want to know more information. I’d love to chat again and thank you for having me on. I enjoyed the conversation. Awesome. Well, you’ve just been attuned to another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective. This is Hamza and signing off to sir. Good. Enough of the, good enough. Daniel’s a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Thank you. Hello.