How To Bring Your Grades Up

How To Bring Your Grades Up
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Video Transcript

good morning good evening good afternoon everybody out there in podcast land you were intended to another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeless perspective this is Hamza and I’m David and super excited for our guest today little sidenote just being a really selfish on my behalf it’s 10 years that I’ve been in the Little Big Brother Big Sister program and really excited to have that relationship with my little and now he is a junior in high school and he is and I actually just saw him in the orchestra pit for the past four days he’s doing the Wiz right now and he’s really excited about going to hopefully fingers crossed Juilliard or Julliard and or NYU so he’s really interested in being a successful teenager and our guest today will give us some tips and tricks to be a successful teenager he’s talking about the best-kept secret of successful teenagers we always as older people will think that what’s going wrong with the world but these teenagers what are they thinking about and he’s here to shed light on the other half where we don’t have to be as worried without further adue like the welcome Paul Burnaby to the podcast welcome Paul yeah thank you nice to be with you appreciate the invitation and thank you for your your good work with that that young man that makes a difference I think every year every kid is one positive relationship away from being successful and your role in his life is good does it make a difference sure thanks thank you for that and welcome to the podcast Paul I guess before we get started I want to kind of go to that you said we’re one person away from success so would you say that that it takes a what is it a community or a what is it takes a community to raise oil Oh Billy’s a village yeah village yeah yeah and I think that’s true but it really takes one person to believe in a kid you know because how did out of it how does a kid come to really know themselves other than through a social mirror that’s the language we use in our work with social mirror or from another in a relation we come to know ourselves by based on how other people respond to us oftentimes and that can sometimes not be healthy I mean sometimes people respond to us in unhealthy ways or respond to kids in unhealthy ways and they come to believe something about themselves that’s not true but if they’re in a healthy relationship that that mirror from the other person you know to smile when when a kid walks in the room knowing that somebody smiles when that kid walks in the room knowing that somebody wants to spend time with a kid knowing that somebody is there to you know can continue to to support me even when things are difficult I mean all that stuff just makes a difference in how kids come to know themselves and therefore how they come to respond to people in their lives as well or situations like school our world is school that I hang out in schools my teen is is involved with we’ve trained now a million teachers across the country because we’re trying to help them be more effective as they work with with the kids who are in their classrooms whether it’s preschool to senior year in high school that is phenomenal and I want to ask you about the school system there’s an argument that the smaller the classroom the more individualized attention that you get and some of these schools when you’re talking about the personal mirroring I mean how can you have that one-on-one communication if you’re teaching a class of 40 students but and that’s really difficult I think the the benefit of a teacher is that that teachers there day after day after day but there certainly are things in our schools that that we need to take a look at class size oh so it would be one of them but I think other things are probably even more significant and and that is what’s really our purpose and I start teaching in 1970 and I would say my purpose in 1970 was to dump information into my students heads I mean every teacher that I had I grew up in the 50s and 60s and there that I had did that they were a source of information for me and so we’ve come to think of teaching as as as that role as a provider of information and I think that’ll always happen I think teachers will always provide some information but that’s not our purpose and I think we got to get that right in American schools we have to fully understand really what our purpose is and what we’re doing with top-20 and it’s all the trainings that we conduct is it we’re kind of beginning with that idea well why do we do what we do you know in the school and so where we’re going with that is human development we are in the business of human development through learning there are there are groups on the planet who do human development through farming they grow crops so human beings can eat in that like a part of human development that’s not what we do in schools we do human development through learning and I think that that purpose can easily get lost in in our system of Education in America we can start believing that it were in the business of test scores you know and there’s nobody in the country who wants higher test scores than I do but we don’t get test scores high by focusing on test scores we have to look at these kids as human beings in fact I learned a long time ago from one of my grandson’s his name is Joe I learned the concept human being precedes human doing he that’s not his language he said to me one day he said grandpa I love school because my teacher says to me in the morning hi Joe I’m glad you’re here and when he when this little boy told me this he was five years old at the time I realized he was saying something that is profound and in grandpa language it’s human being precedes human doing that we want kids to be doers right we want this kid to get into Juilliard we want this kid to do well but before that young man who you are working with can we have to first deal with him as a human being and it’s the same too same thing is true for us as adults whatever job were in we’ve been hired to be a doer all right but before we can do what we’re capable of we have to deal with ourselves each other as human beings so human being precedes who’ve been doing in and when we kind of stay in touch with that idea that principle then human development becomes our purpose in American schools we’re not growing Christmas trees these are children and so I think we just have to stay locked in on that could that that purpose of human development and I really like I think that’s even more important than class size it is to be aware of that class size is a big deal but I think our being really tuned into our purpose is the biggest factor that we need to get get straight in American schools sure and I’m thinking of the documentary whom to and where to invade next which was have you seen that documentary with Michael Moore I have not yeah it’s a really good documentary it came out a couple years ago where you know as a tongue-in-cheek from an American standpoint he had mentioned are you familiar with Michael Moore yes okay so they come at him because they say it just this is the premise so the premise is since world war ii the the wars that we’ve engaged in a kind of they haven’t been the most successful and so they come to him and they look at okay well we’ve tried every we’ve used all our resources now we’re going to look to you as to what will make America great again type of deal and before that before that statement became what it is today but anyway so what he did is tongue-in-cheek is he went around to different countries mainly in Europe and he was showing how they were more so being a human being versus a human doing and their whole framework of raising a positive communication a positive environment for this child for a teenager was totally different than ours ours was more so like you like you just mentioned what are we producing what are we doing the full day you get in trouble if you’re sitting around here versus there they had you know three vacations a year they just had a whole full fuller life as opposed to you know producing a widget and so they were showing that these schools are setting us up to produce a widget and that’s what you’re going to be in t die versus a human being which you were talking about at the beginning in the podcast so yeah I think I think you’ll like that and so I do want to ask you before we get into this the social-emotional learning I want to ask you about it just as an aside I actually taught second grade like a long long long time ago so the cool I’m glad talking to you because this is kind of near and dear to me and so I wanted to ask you about North and South and so not the traditional Civil War North and South but it seems like in every state that there is kind of that North and South division in the North that’s where the majority of the funding is going to the schools and then the South not so much you know the South is by the airport they don’t have a maybe the economic infrastructure and so those two schools have thought they’re kind of set up to maybe in the northern schools you may even have this conversation about a human being but in the South it seems like you’re automatically set up to do a human doing what’s your take a look well uh I mean if you’re talking literally about the north in the South I have not experienced that in fact I was just in Birmingham Alabama on Monday and Tuesday of this week um and I would say the school that I was at was very interested in in human being we’ve we’ve trained a million teachers across the country so we’ve been you know all over I think they’re probably four or five states that we haven’t trained in so I when when we are working with the faculty or staff the interest that I see in this concept of human being precedes human doing and and when the business of human development I don’t see any distinction anywhere everybody is interested in that everybody it seems to make sense we really are in that I think I think there’s an old mentality and it’s it’s again across the board it’s not I don’t see it geographically different but there’s that there’s an old man tell old men tell about what a school is that is gradually shifting we’re gradually shifting away from that and it’s that it’s that that mentality of uh is it’s from the Industrial Age where we’re we’re building something you know we’re we’re adding something to this to this car as it comes through I put on the wheels you put on the hubcaps and you know and then it comes out at the other end I think that’s a that industrial era provided that that kind of a frame for weather school should be but it’s very different from even what the word education means education comes from a Latin word that means to to draw out in other words there’s something in a child I did this young man that you are being a big brother to there’s some when you met him there was something in him already and by your relationship and your concern and care for him that is growing that is developing it’s coming from the inside out and so that I think we have to return to that kind of concept that doesn’t mean that we that doesn’t mean that we don’t give kids information and and and in some ways they something’s something’s provided to them as they go through the system as well but I think that whole notion of what education really is about has got to be restored so that we’re dealing with the the overall health and well-being of a child not just the not just the academic achievement I was I was in a school district in New Jersey twice in the last couple months once in August once in October and the the the mission statement in that school district I almost don’t buy hurt it’s that we will we’re responsible for the academic social emotional and lifelong success of all of our students so so I had that on the screen PowerPoint slide when I started working with these 600 teachers and I said if that’s your mission I would like to ask one of you to please show me how you can walk on water because they need to do those things in your mission statement then walking on water is gonna be a piece of cake there really is this shift even in what we’re expecting from teachers when I was a young teacher so those four things academic social emotional and lifelong learning when I was a young teacher I was responsible for one of those not all four I was response for the academic growth and achievement of kids even that’s difficult but we’re now expecting this you know this whole array of social-emotional and lifelong learning and I think we should I’m glad that that expectation is now being placed on American schools and on American teachers but that’s really difficult so there’s been this whole shift I think that we’re moving slowly away from this industrial model to more of this human development model I’m excited about that it’s not moving quite as fast as I’d like it to go but maybe doing podcast like this might advance that a little bit so thanks for you guys there do be – we do or do our share for sure let me get let me ask you Paul so with the with the mission statement I mean that’s that’s a huge undertaking and a lot of teachers seem to be overwhelmed because it’s just more demands that are on them and the relationship that you mentioned with your grandson is a great relationship meaning that there’s some family involvement and a lot of teachers especially with this huge mr. Stayton that you mentioned how much interaction or involvement would see parents do they have with the students because it seems like when both parties are both doing their share that that’s when the child really benefits if it’s all in school and no parent involvement you kind of fall on deaf ears maybe after three o’clock when they go home absolutely and that’s why four years ago we started a new program in tap 20 that we call becoming a top 20 school because you just you just hit the nail on the head often times when I asked parents when I when I asked teachers what’s a what what the problem that you encounter in your profession they will say parents all right parents calling and complaining about X Y or Z and when you ask parents they will often say teachers all right that relationship is is not effective what we have to stop blaming parents and we have to stop blaming teachers Blaine Blaine is a dysfunctional activity and so when four years ago I said to my team you know we’ve trained hundreds of thousands of teachers but I don’t think we have a top 20 school and so we started looking at that what would that entail and so we started four years ago this program called becoming a top 20 school it’s a bit it’s about a three year program that we work with the school and there are three components to it the first one is exactly what you’re talking about the first one is we focus on the human development of three groups of people obviously the kids the students but also the faculty and staff and I’ll tell you why in a minute and the third group is parents that that schools and teachers and top-20 has something to offer parents that will help them be more effective parents III think about this rule a lot my mother and father I thought were fabulous parents who never had the parent because because everything in the culture kind of supported their values everything that was on television for example this is go back to black and white you guys wouldn’t even understand what I’m talking about there’s a black and white TV but I think my wife and I were pretty good parents who seldom had to parent there were a couple of times one time when one of our daughters got caught drinking and she was in high school we had that we had to parent in that situation one time when our oldest daughter was watching a movie with a girl friend of hers called sixteen Candles now I don’t favor saw that movie but but I have four daughters in sixteen Candles is not a movie that would that would sit well with a father of four daughters right so we had to we had to parent in that situation I have four daughters right now who have children and I watched them parent and it’s 24/7 I you know what we’re often talking to young pitcher young parents and it’s 24/7 because there’s so much that’s out there that comes into our homes automatically with with technology everything that’s out there is in is in our homes now some of its good but a lot of it’s not from a parent point of view so I think this role of a school of finding meaningful ways to support parents and helping them be more effective parents is is is now the job of American school it’s just another layer of responsibility and in the schools that we’re working with that are becoming top twenty schools they’re focusing on that the kind of specific things they can do to help parents be more effective in raising their kids the reason why I’m concerned we’re also focusing on the human development faculty or staff is that we’re about to encounter a major teacher shortage in our country for example the northern seven states Midwestern the Midwestern seven states northern states if you have if you look took a look at the number of young people in the education programs in the inner colleges in those states it’s about forty percent of what it was six or seven years ago now baby boomers like me are about to check out professionally retirements around the corner they’re not enough teachers to reap to replace the baby boomers so we need to create schools and an experience in school that that adults want to be in teachers want to be in we know that 10 percent of first-year teachers this year will never teach again they’re not just going to change jobs in terms of changing a school teach in a different school they’re not going to teach again so so the human development these three groups of people is really essential if we want to be effective and and and help people develop at these and different positions a second component of a pack 20 school is culture and so we work specifically with the school to help them develop a highly effective culture now the word culture when I was a young teacher in 1970 the young the word culture didn’t exist between teachers we were never talking about culture or climate I just looked at a program for a middle school conference coming up in the spring there are 60 breakout sessions at this conference thirty of them have the word culture or climate in the title of the breakout sessions so that’s the only thing we talk about now is culture or climate it’s a major factor and so how do we create a culture that is a culture of learning how do we create a culture that’s an effective and healthy culture of safety and Trust there are specific things that we can do to establish that and then the third component of a top-20 school is that we help a school implement 20 top 20 strategies or concepts into the curriculum so the kids are getting these things and to get back to your point when these things are being taught to the kids they’re also being shared in meaningful ways with parents so that what the kids are getting in school is being reinforced at home and it makes it better for both their experience in school and their experience at home so I think I think you’re right on target when you when you say parents need to be involved in this in some way hmmm let me ask you this question Paul so we’re talking about parents being involved does a good point there Hamzah butter have you noticed any difference or correlation with regards to children whose parents are college educated to have calls degrees and the ones that Delap and the reason i bring that up is years ago I had a roommate and she was a teacher and at a private school and she would talk about that all the time like she would get parents calling and complaining all you’re giving him too much work you know they can’t do all this and whatever and it was always from the kids whose parents hadn’t went to college but the kids whose parents went to college or whatever they were like you know what you let us know what what the assignment I’m will make sure it gets done it’s like they understood what’s coming and they were they weren’t having it that their kids were like oh you got too much they just stay news and no you need to get ready and prepare for this and so it was like two different sides so I was just curious of you when you’re you know thoughts were on that well I think yeah I think there is something that and we don’t have any any research about those specific things I think there are people who are who are more comfortable in the school scene you know so obviously if somebody’s going to college they’d probably a little bit more successful they’ve been in the school scene so they they know the language they’re more comfortable with that and they now also have expectations of their of their kids as opposed to someone who’s not now I think there are people who have not been to college who who can be fabulous parents and can even do wonderful things to help their kids in school but but probably if you looked at across the board percentages and everything kids whose parents have been to college you know are probably going to have a little bit bit of an advantage however let me throw this in as well I think some of us who have been to college we’ve now placed expectations on kids that are creating a fairly serious pressure on on their achievement on defining themselves by their achievement again that’s this is a gross generalization I mean it but I think that’s something that I would be cautious about and and ask parents who have achieved academically did they be aware of that and is there a is there was an expectation that that my son or daughter has to has to arrive at the same level so you know they’re just so many different factors here and variables in all of this that I’m not sure you can just categorize parents who have been to colleges is those kids are gonna have a better time than parents who have it and there’s something to that but you want to be careful about any any generalizations around man I think yeah because always it’s always going to come down to the individual one right how is this parent relating to their kids relative to school how is how is this parent doing it and what what can we do to help that parent be more effective whether that’s a college-educated parent high school educated parent or somebody like my grandfather my grandfather never went to school my grandfather couldn’t my grandfather couldn’t read or write including his own name and he was one of the more most most influential people in my life because he was there right I guess I thought it was there in my life in fact he called me me bachi like my grandfather came from Italy becoming me bachi which means my boy all right see I belong to this man I was his he keep even though he he he would make a check when he would he had to sign something it was just a check mark so well Louisville you know love conquers all certainly love love will love will make a big difference whether that love is coming from a college-educated person or a high school educated person or from a totally unfor mele educated person my grandfather was uneducated but he was wise and that wisdom made had a major impact on my life certainly yeah I will say that you know I love superhero movies and my favorite superhero was my grandfather so yeah he didn’t go to college but let me let me ask you the contrast with the grandfather versus like David s with the college educated and expectation so with your grandfather maybe you I know for myself I had time to lay out in the backyard on my back and watch the clouds form and you know let nature happen versus today these children are so managed from like five years old I mean they’re where every waking hour is structured is there a benefit to having structure versus having that free time what’s your take on that well I mean both are critical both are crucial but I do see us moving more in that in that structure activity kids are involved in this you know school all day long then they’ve got this practice at night and I’ve got this other thing going on and and I I was with on Friday I was with a school district in northern Minnesota and during part of the day I was just sitting at the table with kindergarten kindergarten teachers and first grade teachers I presented something and they were now talking about it and I said to them I said do any of you believe that we just are expecting way to much from kindergarteners and first graders in terms of academic achievement every one of them said yes we’re pushing way too much on on on the young kids and and that I don’t know that that’s debatable in my profession and every time I talk to a kindergarten teacher but my wife was a lifelong kindergarten teacher any time I talked to a kindergarten teacher a first-grade teacher they feel that there’s just way too much being expected being pushed down into the into the younger ages so it and and at the here’s what a teacher said to me on Friday she said they don’t know how to play kids are losing the sense of play and and you really learn a lot when you play first it’s fun it’s enjoyable you learn about yourself you know how to get along with other people in play is really critical so I don’t I don’t think this is an either/or I think it needs to be a both and there needs to be structure in a kid’s life well we want them involved in certain things but there also has to be play there also has to be exactly what you said kids have to lie on the grass and look up at the clouds and have that at that quiet time and that at that time when it’s just free to be themselves so I I had asked I showed a video a video clip with these kids in Birmingham on Tuesday I did a retreat with fifth and sixth graders and then a retreat with 7th and 8th graders and I showed a video clip it’s really powerful it’s a young kid at a local high school here when she was a freshman she she she made this this video and essentially she says I am NOT defined by test scores and she goes on and talks about you know she does things slowly it takes a long time to do an assignment whereas her sister is kind of the a student who kind of flies through everything right and kind of the main theme in her essay was I’m I’m not defined I don’t believe I did I don’t believe I am defined by test scores so when after watching this and the kids didn’t blink the kids that I was with in Birmingham they didn’t blink when they were watching this so I when this was over I said to them do any of you believe that you are sometimes defined by your test scores every kid his hand every kid I said do you ever believe that you are sometimes defined by Opie O’s Opio is a phrase that we use in our training for other people’s opinions other people’s opinions do you think you’re defined by other people’s opinions right every kid in that room raised his or her hand now there’s something about other people’s opinions that we should listen to when it’s in their best interest but my concern is that kids are are defining themselves by something that’s coming from out there not from inside and I think that’s creating a greater stress we now know that more middle schools are experiencing depression we now know that more middle and high school kids are attempting suicide I mean where is that coming from you know you’re not born with that it’s it develops over time from the experiences that kids are having so I think you know I would like to see more kids do exactly what you were doing lay on the grass and look at the clouds I think I think kids need rather than less than that I really appreciate this conversation and pardon me for I’m actually playing both sides of fence because you know there’s arguments on both sides and I think David and I have had the privilege when we talk about intrinsic motivation we speak with people all walks of life and it seems like when they’re you know 35 and up that’s if they didn’t but if they didn’t address some of the stuff we’re talking about that’s where they’re going back to where the they were influenced by ochio as you mentioned and now they’re taking the time to meditate and spend that quiet time but these people are getting that realization you know when they felt they had no other choice and you’re saying from from early childhood it’s leading to that absolutely it.you know your your passion for intrinsic motivation that is rarely experienced in American schools it’s a major concern of mine and that’s why I was excited when when you guys invited me just to know that you’re you’re focusing on this thing called internal motivation I have asked again you know where were thousands of teachers and I’ve asked I guess thousands and thousands of teachers do you believe in American schools that we are focusing more on internal motivation or external motivation you only get one answer when you ask that question it we know that in American schools we are focusing almost exclusively on external motivation and and here’s the deal any expert in motivation would tell you that if external motivation has any value it’s in the short-term I think there’s a role for external motivation in raising kids and educating kids there was a role for it but we’ve done that exclusively I’ll give you an example a very personal example the the grandson that I told you about is we call him Minnesota Joe because he lives in Minnesota we’ve got another grandson we call Chicago Joel because he lives in Chicago right and when Chicago Joe was in kindergarten and he goes to a good school and he had a good teacher my wife and I were visiting our daughter and her family in the Chicago area and I said to Joe this little kindergartner I said Joe tell Grampa something you’re learning in school he said grandpa we’re learning about bear bucks now when he said that it kinda went over my head but think of the Chicago Bears right and he said when we’re good were given a bear buck and when we get five bear bucks then we can go to the school store we can get something and here’s my thought my grandson has been in kindergarten for two weeks and they’re already stuffing external motivation down his throat I said okay Jory you learning anything else he said yeah I’m Graham I’m learning about the stoplight and I said well that’s cool cuz you live in Chicago there are a lot of those I said Joe what do you know about the stoplight he said well grandpa when the lights green it means we’re being good when it’s yellow and that’s a good point I swear we coulda stopped doing whatever we’re doing again the two things that my kid is being my grandson is being taught it’s it about external motivation and you don’t have to do that with Joe Joe is a curious kid teach him something and he’ll he’s gonna latch on to that he’s gonna tell loves to learn so again I we need balance here there’s a road there are certain kids at times in their life when they need a reward or a punishment but if that’s all we’re doing with that kid there’s no way that kids going to be a lifelong learner so we’ve I’ve had this conversation with thousands and thousands of teachers and and I sometimes ask so why do we do that and I’ll never forget a teacher said we do that because that’s what we’ve always done we don’t even know we don’t even know how to inspire kids internal motivation we’re not doing what it’s it’s it’s not even on the right on our radar screen so that’s what we’re trying to do with top-20 is we’re trying to put it on the radar screen we’ve got to start talking about this we got to start paying attention and what is the effect of external motivation how is that impacting the human development of our students right and if it is if it’s if it’s fabulous it’s just leading to learning and it’s leading to its leading to lifelong learning keep doing it but you gotta prove that to me first and I’m not seeing any of it I’m not seeing the proof of that it’s a control all right if I reward kids or punish or punish kids I can control them I can get a different behavior out of them while I’m doing that but as soon as they’re away from me now what so I think what you guys are onto is just such a big and important issue if we’re concerned about human development which we need to be I think I left a little too hard at the Chicago Joe example because I did I did that red light green light in the classroom and the other thing that I’m really embarrassed or to talk about is the fact it’s twofold one is like you’re saying we need to lay out and uh just lay out and look at the clouds and a lot of schools took away recess right so if they took away recess and then you have a person like me I’ll put myself under the under this light spotlight right now someone like me that did that red light green light but then on top of that I did the reward for junk food so if they required they got like a snack or a candy and so you also have obesity and the kids aren’t getting any exercise because when you exercise that’s giving you like you’re saying you’re playing it’s giving you a way to learn and and we’re then we’re not giving them those opportunities and myself Inc and I learned that from other teachers they were like just give them some candy they’ll shut up you know like the trophy and so I kind of brought I did my own part in ruining some of the kids I would say well in the end I did too in that because we’re evil is because we didn’t know any better right we at that time we didn’t know any better so I’m not I’m not blaming teachers or my profession I’m saying okay let’s let’s think about this let’s talk about this because I believe in my profession if we’re talking about things will come up with better ways there’s a there’s a fabulous school in Royal Palm Beach Florida the name of the school is ideal school and it is ideal let me tell you because my friend Wendy founded this school and is the principal of this school and when you walk into that school I remember the first time I was there I’m watching these kids in this class and thinking like is Wendy giving them money no she has she has learned and her faculty has learned how to keep kids internally motivated in learning this is going to sound really ridiculous but let me just say it I’ll be most of what I said today sounds ridiculous there’s a mirror in every room in this school and I said to Wendy I said tell me about the mirror with what’s up with the mirrors and she said well when kids want to know how they’re doing we just tell them to go and look in the mirror and then they see the joy and satisfaction on the face from having learned how to read something or how to add fractions or whatever happens to be now when these kids are testing at three years above grade level why they never talk about they never talk about test scores they simply keep kids involved in learning all right now is there ever a time when there’s external motivation in school yes but boy it is percentage-wise very very tiny very very tiny and so you got kids who are passionate about learning which by the way kids come out of the womb that way you we don’t teach kids how to in how to love learning we don’t teach them how to love learning they just come that way our job is to is to keep that alive my job is a grandfather is to make sure my grandkids continually love learning and then when they go to school a teacher’s job is to make sure they continually love learning it is if that happens what’s it at the natural thing learning learning is a natural desire but we found ways to shut it down some of the things that you practice some of the things that I practice because we didn’t know it was it was actually shutting down this natural passion and desire for learning we’ve got to restore that way I get to a better place well we’re not having a negative impact on curiosity with a positive impact on a kids curiosity so I have a OPL question for you Paul yeah so from an OTO perspective it’s great for from an internal perspective it’s great to be internally motivated and what you want to learn but from an extrinsic opinion we’re ranked the United States is ranked 17th and educational performance in so since George Bush in the early 2000s there was this huge stem push science technology engineering and math and if you’re not in that those four core competencies then you’re throwing your education away what would you say to that again those are important areas that’s a dimension of being a human being that’s Adam a dimension of it and it and those areas are tremendously important but that’s not the whole alright that’s not the whole there’s this other social-emotional so I would love to see kids involved in stem in every school and involved in social emotional learning in every school now you’ve got a healthy kid you’ve got a kid who’s going to have this balance in the kinds of things that are important to to learn um we have this tendency to just move in one direction and it’s just you know put all of our chips on on one number when the we need to be we need to be a little bit more balanced so I support stem I got a couple of grandkids that are loving working with robots and stuff like that but there’s this other dimension this this human dimension that social-emotional dimension that is certainly important means at the end of the day are people going to have satisfaction in life because of the mathematical IQ or is it because they can they know how to relate to other human beings now I want both I sincerely want both but boy at the end of the day if I don’t know how to play with other people and and relate to other people it seems like our lives get the level satisfaction is diminished I think in no situation so again let’s try to do both of those and we can I think we can one of the things I’ve been focusing we in our training and we’ll do this tomorrow we’re going to be out of school and Cedar Rapids Iowa tomorrow if we can get through this snowstorm and get there in time is essential the whole idea of essentials all right what are the essentials the kids need to get because if they if they get these essentials they will literally experience school in a dramatically different way and a radically more positive way and if they experience school in a dramatically more positive way they’ll also experience life in a dramatically more positive way so look let me give you two examples of essentials my wife is a kindergarten teacher did a unit on loons now loons are the Minnesota state bird now I think it’s cool to learn about loons their mating habits and the way they make sounds and everything and how how the mother loon cares for the baby Luna that’s it that’s that’s an okay unit but would you say it’s essential if you live in Minnesota do you have to know about loons it’s an obvious question the obvious answer no you don’t like knowing about loons is not essential now I was an English teacher literature in English and I taught a unit on a literation three or four words in a row to begin with the same letter with a cool unit is it essential absolutely not 99.9% of people on this planet do not have any idea what alliteration is and many of those people are doing just fine so what are the essentials then what are the things that the kids really need to get and this is one of the things of course that we’ve kind of focused on in a book on the top twenty teams book but all kids one of the things if they get this they really understand this both in their head intellectually but also in their gut emotionally that their lives will be significantly better in a positive way so let me just give you one of those and I’m going to give it to you in the form of a question so you guys answer this question what do you think say what do you think kids are thinking about they’re thinking and its impact on their experiences what are kids thinking about they’re thinking and its impact on their experiences how would you answer that question how old is the child well let’s say fourth grade up through sophomore in high school okay because I would say sophomore and high higher they’re going through their changes Chargers Chargers so who knows what they’re thinking but uh would you say David I don’t know I’m just trying to take myself back to that point in time and try to remember what I was thinking yes what were you thinking about your thinking yeah what was I thinking about my thinking I think I was thinking that no one else was thinking what I was thinking that’s right yeah I’ll be whatever we go through online and I know no one else thinks like this I think I’m just the only one yes well that’s very common but I think the answer that question is they’re not kids are not thinking about their thinking and its impact on their on their experiences so we do what we do a piece one of our major concepts and strategies and and lessons is on that we call it above and below the line and the frost above the line means is when our thinking is that is working in our best interest and below the line is when it’s not working in our best interest when our thinking is not working well for us do we do a whole piece on this when we train teachers we we have curriculum that would focus on this with kids now does that make a difference see I think I don’t think it’s just kids I don’t think adults are thinking about their thinking but we believe that our thinking is our thinking now that’s true but sometimes it’s working and sometimes it’s not here’s the metaphor for it a bicycle so you guys are in Atlanta all right and I meet you in Atlanta and I say hey I like you guys to come to Minnesota and visit not now in February come in on over all right come on October and we’re going to go for a bike ride around the Twin Cities we’ll see the site stop at the lake stop for lunch you know visit some of the highlights and so since you’re coming from Atlanta you don’t have a bike so I’ve got two bikes for you to you guys and the bike site so when I give you the bikes you realize you know the pedals are off the steering the steering mechanism of that right you know the brakes aren’t working the tires are low what would you say to me if I was going to give you those bikes to go for a bike ride you say Paul this isn’t gonna work no it’s not we know that about mechanical things like bicycles sometimes they’re working sometimes they’re not working we know that about other things cars snowblowers in Minnesota sometimes they’re working we should use them sometimes they’re not but my friends the same thing is true but our thinking sometimes our thinking is working and we should use it but sometimes it’s not and we should call time out so we have to teach kids that concept so that they know when their thinking is working and when their thinking is networking and so we’re teaching this to kindergarteners in schools across the country I walked I walked into a second grade class and when you mentioned second gradient few minutes ago I thought about the second grade class I was in in Birmingham Alabama on Tuesday and this teacher had learned about this above and below the line on Monday when she was in a session with me and Tuesday morning she teaches it to the kids and the principal said Paul would you just stop in the second grade classroom I just want you to see what’s going on so I took the second grade classroom I said hey kids tell me something that you’re learning today and this little boy said I’m running about above and below the line I said what does that mean I was playing dumb hey he explains it to me and I thought fabulous I said how do you how do you know when you’re below the line this little girl said well we have we have indicators that’s just not a part of our concept here we have indicators indicators tell us when we’re below the line she said my indicator is that I kind of get grumpy this is second grader the second grade kid who had just learned this maybe a half hour before I walk down that room and I said well if you’re below the line what happens she said another kid said well do you want to get above you you want to get your thinking working again I said well how do you do that this expect the little kids that trampolines that’s another one of our concepts trampoline you can trampoline back above you know how do you do that this one kid said I take a nap they’re already into this the teacher had learned it on Monday she taught at Tuesday morning and these kids now knew it this isn’t this isn’t how to get to the moon this is just about how to understand ourselves if we were doing a retreat a couple years ago about this above and below line stuff seventh graders and and I said what are some trampolines for you one of the things you can do to get yourself back about Galang where you’re thinking is working here’s what a boy said seventh-grade boy 12 year old kid he said kindness he said when I mean I find myself going below the line but when I’m kind I find myself coming above the line and I said to this boy I said I’m jealous I wish I’d had known that when I was 12 years old right and another boy in that same group said gratitude he said when I’m grateful for something my thinking looks better when I complain school selects homework sucks lunch sucks when I complain I go below the line that’s a 12 year old kid learn it they can learn that in 15 minutes and what a difference that makes so I think that’s essential so rather than teaching about the Loon or teaching about alliteration it seems to me that we really need to be teaching about awareness of our thinking and and we can do that with kids as young as kindergarten we’ve got a whole curriculum for kids as young as kindergarten so that’s one of these that’s one of the essential I think as a profession of educators we got to step back we look at what we’re doing and let’s let’s determine is that essential if it is keep doing it we’re teaching kids how to read that’s essential but I think that’s essential if you want to be effective in 2019 a boy there are a lot of things that I was teaching a lot of things that I was teaching certainly not essential and I was leaving essential things out again I just didn’t understand I didn’t know that at the time so what are the essentials I think that’s a big question for us in education let me ask you an essential question with regards to gender so with a there’s a school of thought and I think it was posited by Malcolm Gladwell and outliers and and some of it is based on economics but I’m gonna ask it anyway for especially for a boy’s perspective so the premise is if you can afford it wait until the boy is six to go to school because if they go to five you know there may be puny they mean you know they didn’t develop as clickers as some of the other kids whereas if you waited a year their sense of confidence is higher they’re more apt to go out for sports they’re more apt to they have that social learning that you’re talking about but it’s all predicated on if you can afford it keeping that boy out an additional year and having them start at six versus five are you familiar with that argument I am I am and I don’t know that I was just limited to gender I’ll give you a very personal example we have two granddaughters who are two months apart for they’re four years old they’ve got a couple birthday’s coming up one on st. Patrick’s Day in fact Isla believes in st. Paul because they Paul has a big Irish population we have a big parade and everything on st. Patrick’s Day Isla believes that we really are all celebrating her birthday in st. Paul because that’s her birthday right Emma is Emma’s birthday Emma will be will be five two months later right and so our daughters and their husbands are trying to decide if it’s going to kindergarten next year would be the best choice for for these two kids and and it appears again my wife is kind of the expert in the family on this because she talked in a good that I love probably is ready to go and it was like no question about that emma is very bright I’ve never seen Emma walk or talk either’s dances or sings this is one of the happiest kids on the planet right but my wife probably my life believes that it might be better for her to stay back just for a confidence level as she believes she moves through school so I I don’t I I don’t know if it’s a big difference between boys and girls I think you just have to deep take take each kid individually and say are they ready for this but you know keeping a kid back is not a sign that that kid has a bad parent I think sometimes parents start feeling that way it’s a it’s a sign something tells us something about them but it says the developmental stages of children that’s why we wrote a book called top 20 parents we have the book that you’ve you are interested in is called top 20 teams will have another book called top 20 parents and it’s a book for parents of young kids eight years old and younger and what can what should we be expecting from kids that age you have given given a developmental stage so again I think it’s taking each child individually where are they what do they need now how can we provide that should should they wait a year or so I think in some ways ideally ideally this isn’t gonna happen but ideally it probably would be good if some schools started you know you brought some kids in in in August or September to start a class and about another group in in January to start a class now there’s some practical problems with that I understand but just in terms of where kids are I think that might be a more effective way of doing it I’ve had this thought at times think about this every 12 year old kid in America is in seventh grade when you stop and think about that you would say well that Deb surd that every 12 year old kid is in the same grade does that mean every 12 year old kid is the same well obviously they’re not so so why have we establish this kind of a system where every 12 year old kid is in seventh grade every thirteen-year-old kid is in eighth grade right um there’s a there’s a school there’s a school program here in Minnesota and the name of the school is when WI N and it stands for what I need and when the what I was working with this group I said you know every school in America should be called win every single in America should be focusing on what I need what each each individual kid needs now again some challenges with that but that should be the overall goal what does this child need he’s 12 years old if he’s six years old what does that she’ll need and what to what extent can we provide that and not just do something because we’ve always done it that way doing this because every 12 year old kids gonna be in seventh grade but what is what does a child need so I think Pam those are just challenges for those of us in education and for those of us who are parents that we need to be asking and then struggling with and to the extent that we do our kids are going to benefit I mean I’m actually encouraged by what you said as far as even thinking about starting some schools in August and starting some in January here in Atlanta you know one was I think the major thing with survival and I mean that literally because a lot of children were being hit by cars on the way to the school bus so the other side of it was especially teenagers they need more sleep their brains are developing they need the nine to eleven hours but as young as they are and so the schools start later here and that’s only been two or three years ago and so there’s that argument of should the kids go to school year-round because if they go to traditional nine months you’re taping and they have that summer break that first one or two months that they’re back you’re just trying to get them to remember what they lost over in the summer yes yes I again the only reason why we have three months off was because we were agricultural society we needed the kids home on the farm to to talk to work on the on the farm and that’s what that’s kind of where that comes from well we don’t do that anymore we don’t need kids to be working on the farm for three months in the summer time but we’re kind of stuck in this old this old way they say something about starting time because it’s pretty well understood the kids at every age are sleep-deprived and from for high school kids it’s roughly about two hours two hours a day sleep-deprived now there was a there was a district that because of that they D Sutton because kids were staying up till two o’clock in the morning on their cell phones texting each other right they decided to start school an hour later the buses were going to go an hour later and when I heard that I thought that is the dumbest idea ever for that reason because of kids on their cell phones because if if kids start an hour later instead of staying up till two o’clock in the morning what are they going to do now there will be a clock in the word right you don’t need to be Einstein to figure that one out you see the answer to that problem is that the starting time of school the answer that problem is a parent saying to their sons or daughters your cell phone will be on my nightstand by 10 o’clock at night the parents have to take some responsibility for that for that problem it’s not the bus time it’s not the starting time of school we just have to we have to take some responsibility for that so yes I mean I think kids do need more sleep absolutely and we here’s what we know the the brain grows during that time literally the brain will grow during sleep and so if you’re two hours sleep deprived day after day after day that that has neurological implications and of course if it has neurological implications it then has educational implication so we’ve got to think this thing through this whole issue of Technology I think is becoming a major problem in American schools we’ve seen it as kind of a salvation piece well it’s not in fact a lot of people in the Silicon Valley are sending their kids to schools where paper and pencils being used not technology because they know of the of the addictive nature of ten of technology and they don’t want their kids addicted they don’t seem to mind having our other the other kids addicted but they don’t care right so we said that neither yeah that’s enough no I’m collecting articles on technology and and some of them include interviews of people from the Silicon Valley and one guy said you know we thought we could control this and we can’t because we’re talking about the pleasure center of the brain and when stuff gets there it at a young age you can’t couldn’t you can’t control it I have a dear friend a local fellow here who works with kids he’s a psychologist works with kids and adolescents and the impact of technology and he said to me one day Paul it’s more better faster fun more better faster fun that when kids are on the cell phones or screen time they’re experiencing more better faster fun and now when they walk into the classroom there is no teacher who is more better faster font and so we just turned that off we just turn kids just turn off the teacher because the cell phone has conditioned them to more better faster fun now again I think there’s a role of Technology in American schools but it’s not the role that we’ve given it we’ve given it way too much permission to do whatever it wants and as a result we’ve got kids disengaged in every one another book called why suit maybe we should get together some other time and talk about this other book why students disengage in American schools and what we can do about it because it’s becoming a major problem let’s let’s leave that as a cliffhanger and because I do think it’s an ongoing dimension it’ll continue to change and what who better to have than someone that teaches top 20 training so Paul if you could talk about how I mean you use reference some of your books and and you work with so many teachers across the country I’m sure some parents or some teachers want more information so how did they put out your website your social media and how they can get in touch with you sure wonderful thank you our website is www.antakungfu.com [Music] wonderful thanks guys thanks for what you’re doing Thanks what you’re doing appreciate it stay warm all right feel good take care guys all righty goodbye bye bye you


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