Spirituality Counseling – The Difference Between Spiritual Counseling And Regular Counseling

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Video Transcript

welcome to intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective podcast where we meet experts from all walks of life to learn their intrinsic motivations so that they can share it with the world what do we have a store today stay tuned to find out more [Music] good morning good evening good afternoon everybody out there in podcast land this is another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective this really conv and I am David and we are really excited today we have someone on the other side of the world we have Reverend stephannie Clark they cheers in South Africa and she is the founder of so home it is the first New Thought motional racial ministry in South Africa post apartheid and we’re going to talk about everything when there’s a firm with her she is a religious expert a spiritual expert and she has a different take on traditional religious thought so without further ado I would like to welcome dr. wahrman Stephanie Stephanie Clark to the podcast welcome Stephanie thank you so much times that I would love to accept the doctor but I’m not a doctor yet but I am reference there ah okay well maybe I’m speaking in future talk in another timeline where you are a doctor yeah absolutely no you’re ahead at the time I appreciate that but you know it already right yeah this is going to be a lot of fun because ye are a taboo Buster and you go through in challenge with traditional religions traditional spirituality and so on and so forth but before we get started I do have to mention I do have to ask that as the founder of so home I look for you to talk about that multiracial ministry in South Africa how it came about I’d love to thank you for asking and yes I was born in Britain and I didn’t have a particular any kind of religious upbringing which I’m very grateful for because I I see the people who have a very traditional religious upbringing have sometimes a lot of baggage to get rid of when they start to wake up and start to see the world through different eyes anyway my mother emigrated to South Africa when I was about 27 and I was on a spiritual path I was definitely seeking I was more seeking through the realm of sex and drugs and rock and roll than any kind of religious king but definitely spiritually seeking and I went to South Africa and I found there the first Church of religious science and when I went to set up a group of 85 and so part I’d was still the ruling regime and apartheid only really ended in 1994 when we had our first democratic constitution here under the leadership of Nelson Mandela so we were still nine years away from democracy and in 1985 it wasn’t really visible that we would eventually have Apocrypha in South Africa it was it was impossible to even envisage at that point having a black president that was just not on the card Turnbull and so I I started going to the Church of the little science in South Africa and even only haddem a two month holiday booked in South Africa when I found this church I thought this is it I knew that this teaching was going to be the healing path that I needed to follow for myself so I ripped up my ticket and I thought I just I have to find a way to stay in South Africa and on the first night of my class I met a woman who gave me a job so I was able to get a work permit in South Africa and then I got engaged and so it was it worked you know the universe conspires to help me for sure but what was not only interesting to me but also shocking to me was that our teaching was about oneness we we believe in one mind one power one life and and that everybody is equal everybody on the earth is an emanation of the divine power we’re all created equal in the in the mind of the divine so how come I’m sitting in this church so it’s preaching oneness and yet all the people are white it didn’t make sense to me and I think because I was raised in Britain and because University I’d hear quite a lot of work on so to linguistics in the language of race and the languages sexism the language of racism and sexism so I think I was probably more attuned to that inequality than South African would have been because though Africans grew up that way that was normal for them to have the two races completely polarized and have the white race be the dominant race it was not even questioned by a lot of people it’s just the way things were so I could understand that the white people in that church community really didn’t have any desire to experience one this black South African so it wasn’t anything that they were interested in they were more interested in their own spiritual growth and one of the attractive features of science of mind or religious science churches is that we preach and where is it prosperity princes and parking places or something stupid like that so you know if you join the science of mind if you start to change your way of thinking you can manifest the perfect lover you can manifest a lot of money you can manifest a great body and great health you can manifest these things and all of that is true it’s all part of how we use our minds to align our minds with the truth of being rather than aligning our minds with habitual beliefs or conditioned conditioned attitudes so from going off the point a little bit sorry and so yeah so the oneness and the spiritual teaching for the people in the church at that time it was more about improving their own human condition as opposed to a more global vision of uniting the races in South Africa so I had a I had a vision of a multiracial ministry where Beck’s and white would be worshipping together under the same roof and sharing the same spiritual teaching and I saw myself as a minister leading that spiritual community there was no way that I could have led it without being a minister I couldn’t have just started up a multiracial community at the time and plus it was illegal for the black people and white people to even meet up together socially or as friends or with a business meeting or anything like that it was illegal so I had to be very careful like if I met with my black friends I had to do it secretly or pray that was important and because it would have been jailed for me you know that was that was the fate of white people that got involved in in the black struggle at the time so when I had the vision for a multinational ministry it was it was at that point not even going to be legally possible to have a multiracial ministry but I did go to America and I studied at agape with rerum Beckwith who some of your listeners may know from the secret he was in the secret movie which became very popular in 2006 because he was interviewed on Oprah and basically all the people who were in the secret became household names in the metaphysical movement after that time the Reverend Michael was my teacher he’s an african-american most of the people in the church were african-american as well and and there was no what I did I didn’t any concern anyway any racial problems or discrimination at all and I thought wow this is happening in America so it must be possible for South Africa and then in I was still in America doing my ministerial training where Nelson Mandela came to power and when the whole social structure in South Africa changed completely and when I back in 2000 even though my vision for a multiracial industry at the time I had the vision I think it was 1987 it was impossible in 1987 but when I came back from South Africa in the year 2000 not only was possible it was something that was desirable and something that was wanted in South African culture another way to integrate the traces that have been polarized for so long anyway that’s the long answer to your question I didn’t if you wanted to show on to a long answer but you got the long one yes and I do know Michael Beckwith is is like one of my favorite people so nothing have you been to LA and even drop in his church you know I have it and it’s a am I to do this so I’m along with my mother the next time we’re out there we plan on going going to church stuff yeah forget it’s a wonderful thing and he does live stream as so you can catch it on the launch into if you’re interested oh great hmm yeah it was great just kidding and I thank you for the long story we actually like the long story because I got what you know you need such a web and such a story that giveth the context and on the 18 is really hard to imagine you know it supports older folks we can imagine somewhat but for younger folks they can’t imagine what it was like in 19 and 1987 here in the States versus South Africa so I definitely appreciate that and I notice that even on your site that you are part of it in your conferences you still speak with dr. Michael Beckwith and Lisa Nichols how does how was that conference I’m looking at the Divine Feminine conference it was amazing I was amazing just such a lovely culmination for me because I left agape and left America in 1999 came back to South Africa at the end of that year and I saw her ever mindful again in Egypt he took a group of people to Egypt and I went there met him there so that I could spend time with the agape community and with him and and I think I saw him in 2004 in Barcelona at the world Parliament of Religions and that was probably the last time I saw him I was after the USA I outstayed my welcome by about nine years so I got and I haven’t been able to go back to the USA since that time so if I can eat the river Michael it has to be outside of America then yesterday Latin oh yeah last year said brief it was February 14th that’s right Valentine’s Day and I decided to take lead and do a talk in my church on God and sect and people knew in my church that I was very open about sex they knew that I didn’t have hang-ups about it and I was willing to talk about it in a inner spiritual context so it wasn’t shot to people that I was that I was interested in their subject but it was kind of I think very radical that a minute it would spend the whole Sunday sermon talking about sex and but they loved it they loved it and they wanted more so we can set the god in sex part two and we could Godman sex poultry and goddess 6 part 1 was all about the myth of Adam and Eve and the myth of original sin Godman sex part 2 was about Mary Magdalene and the myth of Mary Magdalene in a hooker and God and says part 3 was about a Virgin Mary and the mess about Virgin Mary being a virgin so those were the three basic topics that are covered and at the third talk muji Cindy was there mu Z is one of my congregants and he read my autobiography when I was working in Europe he didn’t know me but he read my autobiography he joined the church and he he had come from a strong African pastoral tradition where he was preaching the word according to Christian traditional Christian mindset but he had had a break with the Christian Church about ten years ago and in his searching for something that was fitting for him and meaningful for him he come across the news or teaching in the science of mind so he found my church I was no longer leading that the ministry I was already in Europe and I was working in a marketing job they found like Church and as a result of my church he found my autobiography which was for sale in my church so he read it and he read about River Michael but question about the multiracial spiritual community in America so then he travelled to America and met Rev Michael and what was lovely was I actually I came back to South Africa and I think it was 2014 2015 and it was the day before muzie was about to fly to South Africa to meet Reverend Michael so we were able to have a picture taken together he went to America he met Reverend Michael in the altar and Michael to come to South Africa and preach and speak at a conference so fast forward a few months to February 2017 or March 2017 and Here I am speaking about God and sex and when I finished my turf book we always a circle a gratitude at the end of our Sunday and celebrations so in the sipping of burqa dude I thanked the community for finally allowing me or providing a forum for me to talk about God and sex in church because it’s something I’d always wanted to do and never had the courage to do it but I felt completely safe doing it inside my own spiritual community and I thank them and I said I feel like I’ve now found my groove this is it this is what I need to be talking about in the world and Musa came up to me and he said do you remember that I told you I wanted Reverend Michael to come to South Africa and you remember that I told you that I had invited him to speak at a conference while he’s coming he’s coming in August and I want you to give that talk on God and sex when he comes he said I’m having about four or five speakers and Reverend Michael will be here you’ll be one of the speakers in there smart people that I want to fight as well so that’s how it all overall is that I found my groove and then suddenly Here I am speaking on the same stage as Reverend Michael and Lisa Nichols in front of 4,000 people it was amazing how I mean not amazing but amazing you know like we should never thank miracles for granted we should always be in awe and I was really or and at the same time I know when when a person like like I had clearance that I found my groove so then the universe says yes and wonderful confirmation shows up as a result of finding that thing that I meant to be doing on the planet awesome I love it because we always talked about in our world we always say that there are no accidents and so there’s one sitting out on candy the way it all had come together like there’s no way that we always kind of go back between a horse versus allowing and there’s no way you could have controlled that outcome and it turned out to be the best for everyone but I don’t then I mean synchronicity is one of my favorite things so there’s another layer of synchronicity that led to share with your listeners through when and when I was at in America and I was studying the first ministerial school I went to was called the Church of Santa Anita in Arcadia near Pasadena and I went so this was a very white bread Church we had a few black people in the church but typically white bread and people in my a ministerial class said to me you need to meet Reverend Michael Beckwith they heard about my vision for South Africa and they said Reverend Michael Beckwith should be your mentor because he’s doing it is that you want to be doing so I went to listen to Reverend Michael probably the first time I heard him was maybe 1991 and I’ve been in America for a couple of years so it didn’t get to him right away but when I did go he blew me away he just blew me away I’d spend the whole afternoon crying after being in a Sunday service listening to Reverend Michael Beckwith he just blew the lid off completely and just I felt like I was being rewired somehow anyway I asked him to be the keynote speaker at my ministerial graduation ceremony at Santa Anita and that was in June of 1992 so he came at that point he wasn’t booked up two or three years in advance and I asked his secretary and she booked him in to come and speak for my ceremony and I spoke from the podium about my vision for South Africa so at the end of the ceremony River my poll approached me and he said you know I have a group at a copy a group of women who are we call them the South African vision team and they’re preparing for me to travel to South Africa and to be able to speak at the various new thought centers in South Africa as well as in the townships and he said I could to be a heart but a vision team so I joined the vision team I also join a car people at the same time and for one year i sat every at least once a week with the other african-american women on the vision team and we we vision for when I say vision I mean we we asked in spirit for guidance about this trip forever Michael so for one year we we did the visioning and we also did the logistical planning Lee we planned the route that he would take and the places where he would stay and like that so we planned the whole trip and then because of my slight inconsistency with my visa status in America basically I was out of service and I could not go I couldn’t risk going to South Africa with Reverend Michael when he did go in 1993 because it would have meant that I wouldn’t get back into the USA and I didn’t want to take that risk it was I knew that I wasn’t in the US and you that there was more for me to do so even though I was officially a reverend by this time I knew that I wasn’t emotionally mature mature enough to start church in South Africa something they knew there was more to be done in America so I didn’t go with Reverend Michael on this trip all that planned whole trip and I had seen myself traveling with him on his trip but I just couldn’t go because of the legal restrictions on my visa so when he came to South Africa last year in 2017 I booked to go with the group to take town after after the conference was over they were going to go to Kay town for a few days and then go on a safari in the Port Elizabeth area and then go back to cater so I could for to fly to Cape Town and be with the group for a couple days there and musii the man who hosted the whole conference he kindly got me tickets to go to Port Elizabeth and go on safari with the group and then go back to katechon so I got to spend the whole week with the agape group and Mary Michael so here we are flying from Cape Town to Port Elizabeth and I’m sitting next to River Michael now it’s 24 years later after I had done visioning with his african-american teen and copy but it still came about it just took a long long time 25 years to come about that I’m sitting on the plane within travelling to Port Elizabeth about to go and be a part of be a part of his work in that part of South Africa so beautiful how things do come around it’s just maybe not in the timing that you and I would often like you know there’s often what seems to be a delay in the spirit but actually everything is working itself out in perfect timing that’s what I understand yeah Wow talk about can you talk about your experiences when you came to Cod to the states with Doug and Diana or Khushi is that how you feel now sailing yes Russia perfect yeah a lot of people couldn’t pronounce it I think it was polish arisen and yes I when I first got to the year I worked for Marilyn Ferguson she wrote the Aquarian conspiracy and I was office manager for a year and then that relationship came to an end and I got work with Doug and byakushiki which was also completely amazing synchronicity because one of my teachers up in the serial school had met dr. banner at a minister’s conference the weekend before I talked to her I went up to and I said I need work and you know anybody who needs an admin assistant or go Friday and she said well funny you should say that because I just spoke to the leader of a religious science retreats and he asked me the same thing do you know anybody who need a job as an assistant because my Aston is about to leave so Reverend Linda McNamara who was my teacher ministerial school put me together with Doug and Diana Croce and I had my interview and within a few days I started working for them and so darkk was a management consultant but he did win/win conflict resolution in the Church of realist science and in many situations he worked for Sony and you worked for Apple so he did like high-level management training and conflict resolution sessions and he so he knew all the ministers in the Church of religious science which was amazing for me because as a result of working for him I got to be part of that his ministerial circle and then also the other special thing about them was that they had trained to do Sacre ceremony with Native American Indians and regularly did ceremony in their own home and they did traditional ceremonies like they were married friends they do that kind of sermon they do memorial services but then also they did other kinds of ceremonies as well at New Year ceremony or a ceremony to celebrate someone leaving a job and there are many ways that they knew how to mark important transitions in people’s lives with this ceremony for a ceremonial space and up until meeting them I had really very little connection with Native American Indians and I only knew about traditional ceremonies in a church context I didn’t really know what ceremony could be I didn’t know about its potential I’d only really seen the formulaic rituals that went on in church which for me always were pretty much meaningless in the inner ceremonies that I had attended like budding ceremonies or memorials oh I realize now there was a lot to be desired in the way that these things were handled so I can’t die and I really gave me my initiation into the art of ceremony and for that I’m so grateful to them oh wow that book was so instrumental to me the Aquarian conspiracy he had to read that in grad school and he had no reference to yeah it’s so interesting again that synchronicity I never would have thought I would have talked about this book had burned this podcast yeah yeah the pages but I think some of that principle still stands and that they were looking at the historical context of the United States and they had worked in the East Coast and the West Coast apart and they were showing how and on the East Coast it was more historically from the British regime and cast and very cultured and conservative and on the west coast it was more of being open to you know all the other I guess what some people would call psychobabble but more personal development and just for openness and it was even really interesting from a context that even today in 2018 in my opinion you would still see more and even some of the bizarre I think I’m 54 to 55 podcasts and the majority of people that are in the personal development space and just growing spiritually tend to be on the left coast and really trick us into the East Coast so it’s just really interesting I always use that Aquarian conspiracy as a reference point because that’s what I didn’t need that foundation be exactly so interesting because I was living in Amsterdam at the time when I first came across the book and friend of mine in Amsterdam had just been home to Canada on holiday and she came back and she she handed me the copy of this book that she bought when she was in Canada and I I look at it at the mobis on the front powerful simple and I looked at it and it it spoke to me I didn’t read it but it spoke to me and then right before I left for America I had the Aquarian conspiracy by my bedside and I was reading it and that’s back I saw that Marilyn Ferguson produced a throne a magazine every two months called the brain mind bulletin and I thought ah that’s fantastic it’s a synthesis of science and religion it’s like someone is actually talking about the unity between the world of science and the world of religion and they’re producing a magazine which discusses it so how fabulous is that so I said to myself when I get to America I’m definitely going to sort of subscribe to my magazine and I knew might be in America in a couple of months time so you know there was no plan subscribing from South Africa so get to America and I didn’t have a green card I had a job offer from a man JPL who was part of the church community where I’m starting to be a minister and he had seen my CV and offered me a job as a German and Russian translator for JPL which is in a space space lab and then I actually caught when I got there and his secretary said are you man do you really think that you’re going to come and work for the NASA space with a with a degree from a British University in German and Russian are you completely crazy I had no idea what kind of stringent security measures people had to go through to work soon I just wasn’t wasn’t even a concept for me and so here I am I had a promise of a job but I actually hadn’t moved up and then a friend of mine from ministerial school said to me you know I keep going for a job interview with this person and it keeps not working out and I don’t know why and I said oh and I said who’s a person she said it’s Marilyn Ferguson she said she needs her personal assistance unless it well I just did the reason that you’re not getting it together with this job is because it’s my job and I don’t know where that came from just came out of my mouth I just knew it was my job who she said heartless interesting maybe I should talk to Marilyn for you and see and so she she commands like a Marilyn and said I don’t job is my job but I have a friend here who thinks it is her job and we should be willing to meet her amount in said short she was in Lake Arrowhead at the time she said can can your friend get to Lake Arrowhead that’s where I am at the moment she had a holiday house so my friend Morey took me to Lake Arrowhead and I met Marilyn American this is my job interview by the way we were walking through the leaves in Lake Arrowhead and she said to me I have a feeling that I met you before you look really familiar to me and I said well I think we met in Atlantis and she said oh yes that must be it and it was like a completely normal thing to say at a job and again I wasn’t into thesis but it just came out of my mouth so then she said look I need to I need to check you out a bit and I thought she wanted to see a CV no she didn’t want to see a CV she wanted me to give her a handwriting sample and she wanted to know my birth date and time so she could get an astrological chart drawn up for me and she wanted her graphologist rings to read my handwriting and see what kind of person I was and that was the job interview and that was how she checks out my credentials it was all completely a mythical thing you know it was not like a standard job interview at all with the standard CV anyway her for that for that that she was so out there you know so radical in her in her approach to how she took on new staff and how she now she led her life and it’s just amazing being I love it I love it yeah we’re going to get to that insects I really wanted to cover that so we can cover it if you have three different parts of that book before we do idea of a question about misinformation and so when I travel around the United States and I tell people I live in Atlanta they think of a marijuana house wise and they just think of all this debauchery of things that happen in Atlanta I’m like it’s not like that you guys don’t live here but there’s a lot of this information about that and by that same token on the web and a lot of pockets in the United States there’s this huge conversation about the Mandela effect and are you familiar with the man honestly I’m not I’m sorry I’m thinking not be able to answer your question but anyway please go ahead and see let me see if I can answer it sure so there’s two there’s two different school of thought there’s a school of thought where we’re Melton Mandela had actually died in jail and some people have said they remembered that historically and then there’s another side where people are like no he lived and became the president of South Africa and all this other stuff is like two different worlds of divergence happening and since you’re in South Africa I wanted to know if you guys are even hearing any of type of information or is that something of a bubble on the internet and in the United States I think it’s immediate it’s a I mean obviously and I do my best to keep my mind focused on the subjects of my choice so I honestly don’t delve hugely into world news or a lot of the stuff that comes through on the internet and especially stuff that’s really negative not that I don’t want to be informed but I just don’t want to spend mental attention on things that will not be useful helpful to me into the world as I see it I’m very much a follower of Abraham Hicks hips and teachings which says you know put your attention where you want your attention to be so so that being said I don’t know if that’s happening in South Africa but I met Nelson Mandela when in 1989 I spoke at the Parliament of world religions and he was one of the guest speakers and yeah very word on the stage in 1999 he definitely did not die in jail I think it is this and yeah I it may be that he was dead for quite a while before his test was announced that’s a possibility it may be though his death was covered up so that preparations could go into place for a massive international memorial that support exactly did not die yeah I mean I witnessed I’ve seen him with my own eyes oh I doubt that he did don’t you love it we don’t think the people from South Africa Bailey’s I just didn’t spend too much time on it so thank you for that and we’re big fans of Abraham as well so better a whole other conversation okay got a lot of different ways I guess for this well no let’s talk about let’s uh bus station cabbies now we’re talking about Goddard sex and what is the original what is the meaning of the original sin in your opinion so in the in the Bible in Genesis it seems that seeing that Eve is responsible for sin and sin being sexuality but she needed took the Apple she was told not to the snake tempted her took the Apple than she had Adam Edison and Adam of course had no control over his genitals so it was definitely our fault for that and so then it was a very little-known mist at the time when Augustine was around so Augustine was born in the fifth century in North Africa and he his mum was a very strong flick his dad didn’t really have a religion this is from the Roman era I was still in place and he Augustine was a theologian he was a horny guy he had a mistress and he had a child by this mistress and he was with her for 14 years in total and he was so disappointed that he could not control his erection he figured like what I want to have an erection I can’t have one and when I don’t want to have an erection I do have one so he figured I can control my arm and I can call my on to go down I can’t allow the truck but I can’t control my penis so my penis must be of the devil that was his that was his like logical conclusion about his penis because he couldn’t control it and do you think that anything to do with the devil must be sinful and so his penis must be sinful and he realized that he thought that the best way to overcome the sinful part of his body and sinful sexuality was to be completely celibate and he figured okay look but he understood that the race needed to be procreative so he said people had to be married and but one side procreate better better than to be celibate and he wanted to be celibate because he wanted to focus his attention on God he wanted to be able to meditate without having lustful thought he thought celibacy was the way out of lustful thinking I don’t agree with that at all but that was that was how he thought of things and he he said that if if we’re as these children are born of this sinful sexual interaction between a male and a female then then children are born in sin it’s like they’ve got they’re born of sex so they’re born of a sinful condition and this is a massive brilliant setup from the church but if you’re born in sin how are you going to get out of sin because sin if you’re born in sin and you are a sinful person then won’t you die where are you going to go you’re going to go to hell so gosh what can we do to avoid going to hell aha ok so Jesus was perfect wasn’t born in sin Mary was a virgin she never had sex s what Jesus was pure we have to be like Jesus we have to pray to Jesus for redemption and then we can avoid going to hell okay so we better baptize the little babies when they’re born right away because if they are not baptized and then they die then automatically they go to hell we want to avoid that and then oh dear when when a person reads to 13 or 14 they’re going to have hormonal changes they’re going to have thoughts about texts are going to be sexually active how do we get around that we have to pray to God for redemption and we have to insist that people are remain virgins until they get married but once they’re married then okay it’s not a sin anymore because it’s about procreation and that’s what original sin is all about it’s all about control control without control now because if you can control a person’s sexuality which is we have part of our being and being alive in the human in the human realm sexual being so if you can control that very essential part of that functioning as human beings well what can you not control if you can control that you can control everything because it’s a very natural desire if you can somehow block it or stop it yeah you’ve got total power all right brilliant brilliant what we’re but but at the same time insane yep so that’s the whole Christian a Christian mythology that I’m very keen to see bunk in my lifetime because I I see how sick people are you can see in the Catholic Church particularly how the priests are being accused of incest and abuse molestation how there’s a strong gay priesthood which I’m fine with that I’m fine with it I think it’s obviously it’s it’s fine to be gay or bisexual whatever whatever is right for you do it but um you know there’s a lot of little disagreement about that in the church so that’s one of the reasons I love my own teaching religious science a lot of the ministers are either female which is lovely or gay which is like but also lovely very different from the traditional Christian set up where most of ministers are men and in the Catholic Church where they have to be celibate because you know God forbid that they would be tainted by the sin of sex and still think that they could be spiritual leaders for their community I don’t know how they advise married couples when married couples have sexual difficulties that seems to be a big stumbling block for me but anyway that see and part of the insistence on celibacy as well in the Catholic Church was because the monasteries owned big lots of land and so if the monks had had kids then the kids would have been inherited the land and the land would have been gradually been distributed and so the monster we’ve had such as stable concentrated center of power and wealth if monks have had children so that’s another good reason to keep my celibate or if they are going to have sex at least the kids or they just Merton they don’t have any right to inherit any of their dad’s land interesting huh yeah that was more than a mouth elephant or I want to do it honestly because you’re talking about control right and so if you’re controlling or oppressing an emotion we’re seeing that a lot here in the states where there’s a lot of control over emotions so there’s a lot of political correctness and we’re seeing a lot of violence in schools and such where kids don’t know how to they’ve been pushing emotions else for so long so you know no one’s feelings get hurt or anything like that but now it’s exploded right in the weight that we can’t control like if it’s a little scary you know for those that have children to send them into an environment where that competition has happened and I wanted to get to your take as an outsider of what you guys are seeing with regards to the violence that’s happening here in state hmm I remember when I first came to the states 1989 I went I went into shock when I heard what was happening in schools because already 1989 and kids were on drugs in the schools and they had security guards in schools with guns to stop gangsters and all kinds of you know violence in the 89 and I was you know coming from ok Britain South Africa was a violent country but I grew up in Britain and we never even had to deal with that in in my childhood when I was going to school I mean there were people who escaped from the mental asylums and people women girls did get raped and murdered but it was a very unusual thing and it was because the guys were insane you know not because it was an everyday occurrence yeah the violence so to me violence is as a sign of a spiritual a strong spiritual disconnectedness and it’s the kind of disconnectedness that religion I don’t think could ever have fixed even if people had had a like so-called strong Christian values because I’ve just talked about those strong Christian values are based on mythology so moral values are something else that’s not necessarily a Christian values so moral values is I do i do what’s right for my fellow human beings I do the right thing I do the adult loving thing Christian values you could see that Christian stood by when the Holocaust or the Holocaust was happening and the Christian Right to me in America I mean looks like the Trump support it doesn’t look anything like what I would understand to be pure Christian values it looks about looks to me more about you know let’s let’s stay on the side of might and right rather than let our enemies let do good for people who are poor and let’s help people who are disadvantaged or marginalized it’s not about that so the violence is I mean it’s a massive cry for help and a massive indication of the emptiness and the void and the fear and the pain is so present in well I don’t want to say just American culture I think it’s something that’s going on around the world and specifically in the West and I think America is a leader you know America is a leader in the world and Americans it seems that things seem to erupt in America first and then it you know comes ripples around the rest of the world but so America is a leader and it’s really clear that this cult the culture but that is America is no longer spirits based as it once was with founding fathers and it’s like it’s really gone a long way from that initial visionary idea about just a free society so that’s the best I can offer you it’s a it’s a sad thing that it’s happening and happening it’s happening quickly and it’s happening in like all over the places like an epidemic almost an outbreak of at the moment sir no I want the solution there’s always a spiritual solution for our human human problem but this is a big one and certainly giving giving teachers guns is to me just magnifying the problem it’s not solving it at all not solving it at all yeah I deal you know so what would help I mean like something like you’ve probably heard of tapping EFT and some some kids go to schools where they meditate that were there instead of having detention at the end of the day there they taught to meditate in their period after school where they’re you know they’ve been naughty in the classroom so those introducing those spiritual techniques and spiritual ways of a lining inside the classroom is to me the fastest and most effective way to heal the situation now whether that’s adopted on a widespread basis it doesn’t look very likely at the moment but to me that would be the solution talking about that clearly right okay so you’re talking about the theme and the UFT answer was more of a spiritual kiss connectedness that’s happening and as a psychic channeler and a classic reader I am reminded that of AI can do a conference I was just talking about recently where there was a a medium there and you know you people are better listening you know they speak to people on the other side or family members one have you and so in this one instance there was a old uncle that had come through to this lady in the audience and he was like whoa I don’t usually believe in this but everyone laughing because they’re like he’s dream listen but he still has that mindset of I don’t believe that but obviously I’m parts of you and I’m not in the third dimension anymore and I wanted to get your take on since you are in a Copic reader of people making amends and it’s my understanding that people let go when they transition so someone that may be spiritually disconnected when they were living and breathing in the third dimension what’s been your taken in outreach or communication with folks on the other side that may have had a different opinion while they were living so I think I understood that if they had been so someone who committed violent acts on this on this side of the veil is there a hopeful possibility for getting free when they move over to the other side is that yeah is that right yep yeah okay I don’t know so cool Goshen is a very interesting topic isn’t it and I think my best answer comes from a book that I wrote called the testimony of light by Helen Greaves and this is a book a channel by I think a British woman who came to South Africa and work is a nun and she was very awake in her spiritual views and she went around South Africa lecturing and then she died and after she died her best friend who was also a nun was able to make contact with her and so was able to hear messages from her friends journey on the other side and the issues was about a Nazi war criminal who had gone over to the other side and was in a kind of a hospital when he first went over and people on the other side came to him to give him help and to give him healing and to help him move on and he couldn’t he couldn’t feel or couldn’t discern that he was being given help but even if he could have discerned that he wasn’t available for it it seems like when when a person gets to the other side that they’re given all the help they could ever need in order to move forward move on be able to see what they had done and be able to just take responsibility for it and move on and be able to then give back by helping others so that to me is the the unstruck healing you know that I’ve done something that’s been damaging to someone else but that I then take responsibility for it and find a way to give back so that my transmission or the pain that I caused can be put right it can be balanced I can make amends and I can help other people based on that experience that I had to have in order to be able to help other people going forward so ultimately nothing is bad nothing is wrong everything is all part of a massive learning curve and I do believe that on the other side there is a way to become free of things that we had done in the human condition that were in some way painful or producing harm for others so the question that I was going to was going to ask Stephanie was one of our first early podcasts we had talked about the power of napping and inspiration that comes during sleep time and so that sounds like just for now reading that’s kind of what happened with when you how sacred ceremonies was birthed something was something like a similar experience yeah it was a lovely experience so I had joined a group coaching group coaching seminar ever think it was six months of coaching on how to run a business on the road and the teacher the leader of the seminar just said I just needed to have an idea for a business and then it would be fine to join the group and I mean I didn’t really have an idea except I wanted to do something spiritual online where I could reach a lot of people and help them with with whatever just my own particular way of understanding how spirituality works and I just wasn’t getting a business idea at boy wasn’t happening and I was so frustrated because all the other people in the group coaching format they were all doing really well they were asking questions so we’re making progress in their business and I’m still sitting there stuck anywhere I went to bed one night and I just said okay if I have to meditate for however long until I get this idea then that’s what I’m going to do I had just gotten to the end of my human resources we’re trying to think of this business that I was going to run so I went to bed surrendered actually I went to bed surrendered and I think that was the reason why I got woken in the morning at about 4 o’clock with the whole download for this sacred ceremonies business how I could help people to create their own sacred ceremonies without them having to go to a church where maybe it’s like they wanted to do a memorial service but the person who died wasn’t religious they’re not religious like what do you do in that situation how do you set up a memorial service where you’re not in any way dependent upon a religious institution how do you do that independently and does it still count is it still a valid service if you don’t have a traditional minister or priest in the whole process for you so this is one of the things that I would like to be able to do or that I do do and but the idea came just as a result of me completely giving up on my human in my human state and being willing and to hand it over and say okay I surrender if I have the meditate to get this idea then I’m going to meditate until I get the idea and yeah sometimes I’m very blocked and so takes a while I have to go really prostrate before I surrender and start to be willing to meditate on an idea usually I want to figure it out with my mind so I’m a Gemini so I don’t if you pick that up by chance I talk fast and I think fast and I sometimes you know I just need to get still and then the ideas come but I resist that for a long time and then eventually when I do it the ideas come and like why didn’t I think of this before why didn’t I do this before oh because I was the resistance for anyway this fall’s learning on your business yeah we love it we love it because it makes you human right and as a law of attraction coach people want to work with someone that they feel comfortable with that they were in their same shoes at one time you know you’re not on this cloud try you know your your real life breathing living human being that they can associate with so the art of allowing surrending a surrendering I think on some level we all go through it I’m a cancer and so I’m totally like you just trying to control it and when I actually let go I always get some pleasantly surprised as to things I didn’t I never would have come across if I feel left up to my own devices I actually have to let go and allow my team to kind of come in so it definitely resonate share your story about that it’s interesting the whole idea of letting go because so often in in my spiritual teaching were here let go and let God I’m thinking ah I hate it when people tell me that I hate it because you know I wouldn’t let go if I could if I’m busy hanging on don’t tell me to let go because I won’t I’ll hang on because I think I have to so let go you know that I think I only do it when I’m in pain either let me deep pain and I’ll let go finally and just you know that’s how how I think we operate in the human condition I don’t know anybody who just says oh I’m going to let go now because it’s a good idea how to get down on my knees not spiritually speaking not necessary that I’m going to get on my knees in the physical but yeah I have to be really like pushed into a corner before I say okay I’m going to surrender now I can’t do this anymore and in the short version of the prayer which is if it done radio like this means I’m giving it up now finally God over to you then that’s when I get the answer that’s why I love the concept of grace and I also you know when they plug in the Bible about Jesus turning the water to wine it’s maybe a believer that baby shots on the other side like what does personality let’s see what they’re gonna conjure up where they actually like go they play drinking games on the other side funny we like that you can laugh and there’s nobody because you know it was a lot of spiritual stuff that kind of went beyond our busting through a lot of taboos of traditional religion new conversation and it was a definite pleasure discovering this such a wealth of information on experience that you have that obviously we couldn’t even though we tried to cover in one hour we’d love to have you back but before that happens I’d love for you to give out your website and social media a contact so people could get in touch with you to learn more about your of your books your your your services and everything you have to offer I thank you for that yeah I’d love to speak to you guys again – and thanks for all your lovely questions it was really a lovely conversation and so my website is timeless transitions net www timeless transitions don’t net and that’s where you can find the information about my ceremonies and about how I hope people with their Amis and also there’s a page about my speaking events on god and sex that’s one way to contact me and in my book my autobiography is called the misadventures of an irreverent Reverend a spirited guide for rebels and renegade and that’s available on Amazon and I have a Facebook fan page at Reverend Stephanie Clark and there’s a free offer if you want to go onto my onto my website and I’m giving away my first Gordon sex video the first one I did in my church and I’m trying to remember the link they don’t have it in front of me right now do you have a notes page on your on your podcast where you can print it I can’t remember the link out of the top of my head I’m sorry to cook that last part okay I’m wondering if you have a notes paint so that you could print the free offer link absolutely absolutely okay I can’t remember off the top of my head I’m sorry sir yeah whatever and then your business can go and get the video yeah awesome awesome and you have just been into to another episode of intrinsic motivation from a Holmes perspective this is Hamza and I am David and Reverend Stephanie Clark it was a pleasure Biasi you let’s do it again soon I’d love to thanks so much guys thank you have a great day you too Michael that’s good a split okay [Music] listen to intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective on radio public it’s a free easy-to-use app that helps listeners like you find and support shows like ours when you listen to our show on radio public we receive direct financial support every time you hear in episode experience our show and radio public today by listening to the show link in our episode notes and thank you for listening thanks again for checking out another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeless perspective podcast please check us out on our website at intrinsic motivation dot life where you can click on the speak pipe button and leave any suggestions for a future podcast that you’d like us to cover also check us out on our social media sites we have a YouTube channel Facebook page iTunes podcast in addition to stitcher and Google Play all under intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective check you out next time have a great day you