Suicide Prevention Techniques – Suicide Prevention Strategies With Jeanne Sanner PhD

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Video Transcript

welcome to intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective podcast where we meet experts from all walks of life to learn their intrinsic motivations so that they can share it with the world what do we have in store today stay tuned to find out more [Music] good morning good evening good afternoon everybody out there in podcast land this is another episode of intrinsic motivation from a home inspector this is Hamza and I am David and I am glad and David and I always talk about that there there’s no accidents and so our guest today actually has a book that she had written called why I’m glad the gun jammed and if that is an inflammatory enough before we do get started I do want to have a bit of great rest in peace – Verne Troyer and for those that don’t know Vernon tyre he’s a guy better known as many me from Austin Powers and you know a big celebrity and he actually had to come to depression yesterday and we’re going to cover a little bit about genes story with that dr. gene Sanner he’s going to talk about her book while I’m glad the gun jammed and many other interesting things that I think that the audience would enjoys without further ado I’d like to welcome dr. gene center well hello there from sunny California actually the name of my book is finding unconditional love a little peace p e AC e at a time and one of the elements of that book is dealing with the period in my life where I actually did put a gun to my head and I actually did pull the trigger and the gun jammed and so then I I go forward with what happened with my life after that and the bottom line is I am very happy I have a lot of love a lot of peace a lot of joy in my life and so that’s why I’m very glad the gun jammed I was just wondering initially before getting into that if you’re you’re getting the booktitle approved seems a lot better for finding unconditional love versus well I’m glad the gun jammed yes yeah finding unconditional love a little piece at a time that that’s that’s really that sums up my my journey my life’s journey that sometimes the discovery of unconditional love or peace and joy takes a little time and you take one step forward and two steps back and then three steps forward and you know that sort of thing so and and I wrote the book and published it in 2011 but I never really promoted it and just recently I revisited it and did a revised edition and that should be coming out in in May Oh awesome perfect timing so we’ll make sure that we get the word out and help promote that book for you so may a 20-18 folks guys be on the lookout for that a short going to be on Amazon and all the other major outlets yes yes now I unwrapped and Hamzah that your sister committed suicide she did for those in the world we all have our experience of remembering where we were when 9/11 happened and you know 9/11 was huge for us here in States and then 7-eleven happened where there was a explosion in Spain and you know there was a little bit of at least internally with the family of talking about the significance of eleven so we were like what’s going to happen one at 511 or 811 and she actually transitioned on 311 so long ago in 2016 oh my god you know well I’m sorry I’m sorry for your loss it’s it’s difficult on this side when somebody makes that choice yeah as I was reading I appreciate you for acknowledging that um and you know it’s one of those where you’re always asking questions that you pray we will not get answered or you’ll get different peaks and different different avenues since this is a intrinsic motivation David and I have experienced for a couple of decades and just learning a lot about spirituality and and piercing the veil and so on and so forth so I’d be get some solace in my relationship with her now versus when she was in third dimension and so kind of hard just even we’re hearing about I don’t need to keep calling too many me but we’re in Troy here because it was a lot of there there’s a lot of there’s a template that doesn’t really exist but when it’s over you’re always wondering because you never know what someone’s going through and on the outside and especially in this case instance just happened yesterday you know you look at his Instagram and he’s always smiling you need the life of the party and you never know the demons that people have to deal with when they’re by themselves that’s very true that’s very true and the people that are left behind if anyone as Eddie one is listening I wouldn’t spend a lot of time trying to figure it out because as in my case I too was always laughing and people didn’t know the pain that I was going through and so there there would be no way for them to understand where I was or how I got to that point and normally people are not looking through the lens of suicide so after it happens people look back and say oh I should have picked that up oh that was a sign that I should and in all honesty know if you’re not looking through that lens you would never interpret those things from that point of view and so you know I hope that people come to realize and if somebody gets to that point there really isn’t anything that anybody else can do now if somebody is on the verge and they’re thinking about it then I really hope that my situation can give them legitimate hope that there are solutions when you and you think there aren’t any you you just don’t see a way out of the quagmire there just isn’t any vision of light at the end of the tunnel and I would like to let people know there really is and you don’t have to get to the end of the tunnel to find the light because you are the light and it’s about coming to realize the truth of who you are spiritually and so you know if there’s anything that I can do to help anybody through my book or through a conversation I hope that I can absolutely one one thing that was interesting and I’d like for you to share your story but one thing that was interesting with Verne Troyer and my sister the parallels is that you know he was 49 and my sister was in her early 40s and so as a family member or I can only speak for myself so I was her brother right from like teenage years 2030 there was always like aid this guy is partly cloudy or is it partly sunny right as always perception and so we had a podcast recently with Michael tomorrow and he was talking about near-death experiences and we were talking about there’s a school of thought of exits that we have throughout our lives and as a family members you just your comment or I me I was used to you know partly cloudy some days partly sunny Sundays on her to half so I just kind of looked at it as oh well we’ll be eighty years old at the beach and she’s complaining about this or complaining about that and I bring that up because I’m just reading burned Troyer story it was very similar in that it ultimately happened yesterday but there were many instances throughout his life where he may entertain the thought and played around with it and then it finally happened yeah that’s very true there are things it isn’t an instantaneous decision things build on each other my father was abusive and then I was going through discovering the truth of who I am as a gay woman and really didn’t understand that in the 60s and we didn’t talk about things like that and I was thinking that I was really sick or something and so there’s there’s moment after moment after moment and incident after incident that builds on itself the key is the the size of the gap what we need to look at is the size of the gap between who someone thinks they are and who they would like to be or they think other people see them as being or they think other people want them to be and the larger the gap then the greater the depth of depression so it really is important to discover the truth of who we are and one of the things that I love about your show is that it’s dealing with who we are spiritually and if we come to realize that we are spiritual beings and you know we are whole and complete and we are loved and we are joy and we are peace and we’ve just managed to cover all of that up with what this third dimension throws at us and so it’s a matter of washing off the mud of the thirst their dimension and seeing the truth of who we are and when we come to that realization it’s like wow I’m really a pretty cool person that’s what I’m hoping people come to see really so let’s go back if you don’t mind sharing a story and just to give it some some context it’s really interesting that were in 2018 having this conversation but I mean this was in the 1960 is that your situation happens so if you’d like to share your story that degree um well it really started with my dad he was abusive physically and mentally and was sexually inappropriate in my teens I was then struggling very hard to find a way to forgive him you know it was like I was raised with the Christian philosophy and forgiveness was very very important and I was trying to forgive and really couldn’t then it’s sort of like Jim self talks to Metatron the symbol of my spiritual mentor was Jesus is Jesus because that’s where I was raised it would be Buddha for somebody else or Mohammed or Ghandi and so I started having the conversation about forgiveness and it was an interesting conversation because I was first told we’ll go to the scriptures and see what I did Jesus is saying to me and so I did and the interesting discovery was he never forgave Jesus always said your sins are forgiven but he never said I forgive you and so then I was told well ponder that and find out why and I realized oh my gosh he never condemned so the first thing that happens if we’re ever in a position to have to forgive someone is that we have to discover we are condemning them or there would be nothing to forgive so then I had to go through the steps of okay well his behavior is worth condemning oh this is unacceptable behavior okay so but then I was given something that changed my perceptions see your whole show and what Jim was talking about is about perception and so then this voice that I identify as Jesus said well what I said you you on the cross said Father forgive them for they know not what they do and he said well let me correct that okay Who am I to argue you know so he said no what I really said was Father forgive them for they know not who they are there’s a huge difference there and so then I realized oh well my dad doesn’t know who he is if he knew who he was spiritually he wouldn’t do the things that he was doing so I was getting through that phase of forgiving my dad’s what I needed to learn next and it wasn’t until after the gun jammed is that I needed to forgive myself as well for whoever I am in this realm and that’s when I began to realize I was having sexual attraction to women and you know and I was in my early 20s and my next role in life I had finished college I was a teacher I should get married so then I found the perfect son-in-law for my mother he wasn’t at all the best partner for me oh and he was wonderful he was an absolutely wonderful man but I did not love him intimately or romantically and so then I was going to leave him and we hadn’t been married very long and what I saw bottom line is that everywhere I went all I did was cause pain I felt that I had caused pain for my father which is why he abused me I felt that I was causing pain for for Roy and for his family and for my family and I was just the center I was a pain magnet and the best thing to do forever buddy in the world just to get rid of me that’s where I was well now when they done for him yeah guy then panicked okay I’m sitting there with a gun and jammed and all of my hand is shaking and I decided to put the gun down and then Roy came home he was in the military and it was his pistol that he had put away and he said why is the pistol out and I made something up like you know well I just wanted to shoot it in the backyard to see you know what it was like and he says well it’s a good thing it didn’t go off they would have heard it everywhere and I said yeah it’s a good thing it didn’t go off but see he he bought it he he bought into what I said that indicates how cleverly I had hidden all of my pain because had it been evident then somebody would put together great pain pistol not good combination okay but he didn’t he didn’t he didn’t pick up on it so would you say that was at a moment where you immediately after that you would just say it kind of shook you and totally put you into another direction or was it like you know I just felt every reason it didn’t happen and I’m going to try again in a day or two well yeah I think what happened was my spiritual side shot up to my consciousness and said okay how often does a military pistol Jam now I probably did nothing and putting it together I probably did something wrong where about me just did you know what are the chances and so then I figured okay I’m supposed to learn something from this I’m supposed to grow from this I’m supposed to do something with my life but I wouldn’t want anybody to go through what I went through in hopes that the gun would jams that they would find out if they’re supposed to do something else I think it’s important for us to come to that realization without without getting to that edge and stepping off the precipice you know so I just I just want people to know that today we have a lot more resources available for folks you know there were no phone numbers you could call if you’re contemplating suicide there were no phone numbers you could call if you are exploring your sexuality and you’re all confused and and that sort of thing there are resources today and I would really really really encourage anyone before they make that final choice to explore some resources where you are heard people hear where you are and what you need and can guide you to the place of peace and joy that I experienced today I cannot put it in words and I know that that is something everyone can come to when they choose to take a spiritual path to the truth also also that’s a wonderful title of a wonderful then terrible ok that’s why I pulled it ever saw that in your book so I need you to appreciate that perfect time for all so that’s such a great Zen parable oh my gosh yeah was I read that and your little story within everything and I was like wow that really really hit home with me so yeah also you should make some shirts and say that that’s a good idea that’s if anybody hasn’t read it it’s also called let’s see also and so I think or something it has a couple of different titles but it’s a wonderful little story so yes it’s three yeah and that’s why I had you know started out with saying it’s 2018 because it made me realize as far as resources that I personally put some things for granted and it made me think back to the mid 90s where I have to give a shout out to the author Ellen Harris and he he has since transition but he had written this book called invisible life and so I was going to school here in Atlanta and I’m originally from New Jersey and so there’s people from all over but Atlanta is known as the Black Gate capital right in the country and so we have our preconceived notions of what that may and may not be and so we were looking primarily at stereotypes and so with DeLand Harris he has written his book where you had the star quarterback on the football team he had the gorgeous girl in his arm yet he was living this double life and you know they want to get married he had given her HIV and so after he died his wife had you know she’s trying to get back and put her life back together and she started asking guys you know if they were gay or if they had experiences and some guys you know they were just so taken aback that your drink’s at her and all this other stuff well every girl at Spelman and all the surrounding colleges you’re reading my books all the guys are like what are these girls reading and it just opened the conversation to have that and so there’s more of an openness now that at least you have the conversation as opposed to you know what that fictional person went through in the story or potentially what you went through and a different time in the 60s where you couldn’t have had that open conversation yeah very true there are a lot of there are a lot of resources now there are a lot of stories to be told and that have been told that can guide people toward well maybe I’m not as much off the beaten path as I think I am you know maybe I’m not as strange or as sick as I think I am so I’m hoping that you know people take the time to re-examine you know we give cats 9 lives I mean I don’t know why we can’t take a feel for ourselves every now and then oh you know and give it another shot give life another shot but we have to get out of the quagmire and it isn’t easy it’s a journey it’s a journey out of the quagmire and there are times when we step right back in it and then we have to you know pull ourselves back out again so I don’t want to make it sound as if it has been an easy journey it hasn’t and even with forgiving my dad you know I would forgive him and I’d feel and I would experience that the other thing that I learned about forgiveness is that we really cannot forgive it is not something we can do it’s insane to think that we can continue to condemn someone and forgive them at the same time it’s just that doesn’t work so what it is you have to relinquish your condemnation first and then you will experience the freedom and the joy of forgiveness so forgiveness isn’t something we can do it’s the result of what we stopped doing when we stop condemning we experience the freedom and the joy of forgiveness so I would go through that with dad and then he’d turn around and do something else that I’d have to start all over you know but he knew because when my mom died and I went back to the funeral and I left the last words dad said to me at that time was well have a nice life because he figured I would never be back in his life again because he knew how he had treated me and what he had done but I couldn’t do that I couldn’t turn my back on him because spiritually I believe we are one and if we turn our back on anyone then we’ll never be hope you see we can’t be whole and so to his surprise you know I used to call home mom and dad were from Maryland dad was from Pennsylvania and they lived in Maryland and so I would call home every week or two and talk with mom and that sort of thing so a week or so went by after mom’s funeral and I called dad now my wife Laura and we together for 40 years we just celebrated our 40th anniversary in March and yes I’m so blessed so blessed but anyway so she would be with me and the phone calls were not easy in the beginning and I’d be a wreck because he’d managed to say something that would help us but you know I kept reminding myself nobody can make me feel anything some our feelings are our choices so why would I choose to be upset why would I choose to be a victim of his words why would I choose to be subject to that power rather than keeping the power for myself so it was that kind of exercise and then ultimately I even invited dad to come out and visit with us and stay with us and I did that several times and and then dad ended up getting either Alzheimer’s or I don’t know what the actual diagnosis would be and he was in a home and now mom and dad were very very socially well-known and they contributed a lot to society dad was a very good Mason and Shriner and he would go to hospitals and visit people and he they were very good people that nobody’s all bad you know so he just didn’t know how to be a father that was the problem um so anyway he was he was sharing with me I had gone to visit him in the home and he was sharing with me how sad he was because he can’t reach out and help other people now people are coming to him and I got the opportunity to share with him that you know well dad how did you feel when you visited other people and you made them laugh because you have a good sense of humor how did you feel he said well I loved it I wanted to do it I felt like you know I had a purpose and I said but Dad you’re just the other side of the same Moin you’re giving other people now the opportunity to experience the joy of giving and if you didn’t have anybody to visit you would never have had that experience so now you’re giving them the opportunity to give and he ended up having a tear drop down his cheek which I had never seen and a smile that I will never forget well that was last time I saw my dad so it was quite a journey but I loved the ending of that journey because I was free and so was he that’s kind of a little bitter reminds me of you know that story you were talking about the movie the piano and every time you saw it I mean the second time you saw it you you know you knew it was going to happen so you had that feeling of you know what was going to come down the line even though you know the first time you didn’t know but after all the years of what you went through with your father not saying that it was right but the experience that you had at that moment you couldn’t have experienced that you know with him at the home and him carrying with all everything that came before it that’s exactly right that’s exactly right and as far as the story of the piano and you have read the book and I really appreciate you taking the time to read the book before I came on I really do appreciate that the story of the piano for the listeners is that in that movie there is a very traumatic moment where a rather horrendous act occurs and I remember the first time that I saw the movie I just I got nauseated I was totally upset this and then somebody talked me into seeing the movie again because they didn’t want to go see it alone and I fought not to go but I went anyway it was good that I did because when that moment came by again I went yes and my friend is looking at me like I’m really not a well person I am during this moment that is horrendous but the thing is I realized it was that moment that was the turning point in the lives of the people in the movie and it ended up with a happy ending and had something that traumatic not happened it would not have spurred the ending that occurred so you know it’s we cannot judge what is good or what is bad we can’t see anything as good or bad until we know the end of the story you know if we know the end of the story then we can assess how each thing and spiritually I believe all of us have a happy ending so everything that happens in this realm is contributing toward that happy ending if we can look at things that way from a distance so to speak then we can see that it is contributing to a happy ending somehow someway we may not see it in the middle of the event but we certainly can trust if if we believe that there is a spiritual life and that we all find the truth of ourselves if we believe that then we know that everything that happens to us contributes to that happy ending you know we like to say that everything is is as it appears to be and everything is not as it appears to be depends of your perception yeah exactly right yes and in the book I have the formula you know P plus B equals e equals a and that is perceptions plus beliefs equal emotion equal action so all of our emotions and all of our actions are direct derivatives of our perceptions and beliefs if we don’t like how we’re feeling or we don’t like what we’re doing then we need to go to the cause and we need to change our perceptions and our beliefs and then our emotions and actions will automatically change see a lot of people for instance we’ve all known probably somebody with an anger issue which was my dad and if you try to control the anger if you go directly to the emotion and you’re trying to control that your control will only be temporary ultimately you’ll explode because you haven’t gone to the source of the anger in the first place so we have to get to the fears that cause anger all anger comes from fear all prejudice comes from fear all frustration comes from fear they’re basically only two emotions in my philosophy and the two emotions are love and fear and we get to choose that’s what I love about your show you often bring up the fact we get to choose and that’s so so vital to really absorb in every cell of our being we get to choose every moment of every day I was happy and I was really excited about interviewing you because I don’t really get to speak with a lot of people that read that know about the parable but I’d love for you to share the story about muddy roads since it was a good theme throughout your day oh yes muddy road is is wonderful it’s the story of two monks Aikido and Tanza and they’re going down the road and it’s raining and they run into this beautiful young lady in a kimono and she can’t get across the road because of the rain well kanzen picks picks the young lady up and crosses the road with her and puts her down on the other side so that she doesn’t ruin her kimono or get mud all over everything and then the two monks continue on Tenzin and Aikido continue on throughout the day and Aikido is not saying much at all about anything until they get to their destination in the evening and then he just explodes and he says you know why did you pick her up you know that that we monks are not supposed to deal with women and especially attractive women and beautiful women and you picked her up and so then Tamsin says back to Aikido well I put her down on the side of the road are you still carrying her whoa see and so it really gets to the spirit of the law and the letter of the law are we making choices to help people even though that may go against the letter of the law Tansen did what was best he did the loving thing as a monk but then he didn’t think about her anymore he just went on Aikido is the one that carried her all day long and with thoughts that were not pure and were you know so it is what are we carrying you know are we still carrying things that we could have put down on the side of the road and I just love that parable it does not now we’re carrying a lot of things sometimes it reminds me of we have a good friend here in Atlanta Yvonne she with a global medium now and when she doing her you know different sessions here you have a circle of people and you set the intention of oh I want Buddha to come through or I want my spirit guides to come through I’ll never forget this woman you know she’s like yeah you know Buddha’s going to come through and it was her dad that came through it she was just so pissed because she’s doing a lot of anger towards him yeah I’m not holding this anymore yeah let that go and you know what I have often said that my dad is my Buddha because Buddha means teacher and those that are pushing our buttons are our greatest teachers because it’s they’re they’re bringing to our attention that there’s something we have not dealt with you know so or dad came through sorry I think that’s really funny her Buddha did come through hopefully I want to go back to childhood when you guys first I think before you moved you had you were living in a small house and you had and company came over so they had to take your bedroom you had to go up in the attic with your brother and you woke up to the middle of the night and it was a strange man sitting on the bed I’d love for you to share that story yeah I was only about five years old and I had always been in my little bedroom downstairs but when we got guests they had to use that bedroom so I had to go upstairs and sleep in the converted attic well the the roof is slanted and the lighting is different and you know that everything is just it was strange but I was on a little cot and I I was getting ready to go to sleep and everything and all of a sudden I see this man at the end of the bed wearing a cap and and he was just moving back and forth and I froze I just absolutely froze and I thought oh my god he’s going to know I’m here I can’t breathe and the more I didn’t want to breathe the harder I breathed and you know I didn’t want my tía was just a mess and then all of a sudden my my big toe on my right foot jerked that’s all it took it took the big toe on my right foot to jerk and I said oh he knows I’m here now so I popped out of that little cart ran over and turned on the light turned around and there was the rocking chair with my brother’s baseball cap on it and every time a car or truck went by the rocking chair would move and so it looked like there was somebody sitting at the assesses and and so I realized that you know fear is just an illusion when you turn on the light it that was a major change in you know I but I was only five so how much of a change could it be but what it did teach me was to face my fears just head-on don’t don’t run from them just look at them and deal with them and they’re not as scary as they may seem to be at first I’ll never forget that as phone psychic was my brother’s baseball cap just the chair would move every time a car would go by so it looked like some guy was sitting at the end of the best with a cap on rocking back and forth oh my life is funny isn’t it well I wanted to bring it up because you know you’re your psychologist correct yet my undergraduate degree is in psychology my Master’s is in education and my doctors and spiritual studies yeah well when you’re you know there during that school of thought of what is it for you in about your life experiences are all an amalgamation of your first seven years of life and I think there’s a lot of legitimacy there the book I’m okay you’re okay and it seems as if Jim self had read that he talks about I’m okay you’re okay a lot I don’t know if it was referring to the book or not but yes we start off with early on that book indicates and psychology indicates according to I’m okay you’re okay which is a very popular book in the 60s and 70s and still has tremendous truth to it I would recommend it for anybody there are four basic postures that we adopt very early on based on our experiences and the what I ended up with because of my dad was I’m not okay you’re okay see he was the big he was the adult he was okay he must know everything he must be right I’m not okay because I’m getting hit I’m getting beaten so I must not be okay so early on in life you you end up by how you’re being treated in what your experiences are I’m okay you’re okay I’m not okay you’re okay I’m okay you’re not okay you’re not okay I’m not okay so they’re basically only four four options there and that will that is the foundation that until people explore it you’re going to be living that paradigm most of your life so it is important to recognize do you think you’re not okay and everybody else is or ever else isn’t criminals often believe they’re okay and other people aren’t so they deserve whatever happens to them the other people and they’re okay so they can do whatever it is they want to do so that paradigm stays with you until you take time to examine it carefully and hopefully come to the realization that everybody is okay and I wanted to bring that out because you know you have that instance where you faced your fear at five but then in your teenage years it took you forever to get your driver’s license because you got some time at your new house I’d love to share I will for you to share you know what happened in the teen years and then what happened you’re at a restaurant when you were 32 it’s all connected from what you’re yet about the foundation yeah this is another incident where my dad’s behavior had a tremendous impact we had my father was in the military and we had been stationed in Germany for a couple of years and we came back and we lived with my aunt and uncle till the new home was built that we moved into well we moved into an area where we were only the sixth house so there were a lot of woods to explore and it was near a stream and there was all kinds of things so it was the summertime I was around 12 and I went out exploring and I got lost now that didn’t scare me for some reason I don’t know why but you know I guess maybe this the incident when I was five helped me deal with the fact that okay I’m lost I found my way home but I was late for dinner now that was a no-no so I came in the back door went to the kitchen sink washed my hands now dad sat in one seat and mom sat to his left and my brother Bobby sat to my mother’s left and then there was my chair so I would be to the right of my dad sitting at the table so nobody said anything I came in the back door nobody said oh good you’re home how you know what nothing nothing everybody just sat there and quiet so I washed my hands I came over I sat down and I started to put some food on my plate and my father did not lift his head he kept his head down and he just simply said where were you and what did I say well of course I said I was lost the next thing you know he had batted me in my face he had thrust me into the corner of the kitchen the chair was on top of me and then he sent me to my room without dinner because from his perspective I had just back talked him I had just asked him I was being now by 12 honey I had learned you do not back off your dad okay but anyway so I was sent to my room without dinner and apparently I went to sleep and basically over the years I had pushed that event way far into my subconscious just just pushed that out of the way well when I was 16 it was time for me to get my license there was no way I was going to get my license now I thought it was because of the films that we saw and two cars are only going 30 miles an hour and they bash into each other and it’s horrendous and I thought well I’m not getting behind the wheel of a car the end but really I found out later it was because of that incident at the table so finally when I was 18 my parents said we’re not driving you anywhere and you’ve got to work during the summer so get your license so I did and then I had met a friend in college who lived in Virginia and we were in Maryland and so she gave me directions and I was heading down to see her and I got lost now next thing you know I’m biting my lip it’s bleeding I’ve got my hands gripping to the point that you know they’re hurting I’m crying like you wouldn’t believe and I was going 45 miles an hour in a 25-mile zone and then I see this little you know and hear this sound behind me that I have to pull over there’s a policeman pulling me over now fortunately at that time policemen were really very good servants okay now he he came to my window I’m sitting there sobbing I’ve got the address in my hand I’m saying I’m lost and I’m crying he knew this was not a fake job by a woman trying to get out of getting a ticket okay this was this was somebody who really needed to get off the highway or she was going to kill herself or somebody else so he said I know where that is follow me so I followed him and then he had me parked someplace where I wasn’t supposed to park and he put a note on the car so that I would be facing the right direction to get out to go home and and so I guess what I was expecting at that time was some fist to come through the windshield of the car and bash me in the head for getting lost okay so throughout the years it was very difficult for me if I ever got lost that it was it was traumatic so I had this phobia be it developed into a phobia which is an irrational fear but this one evening when I was in the in my 30s I was having dinner I was by myself I was in a restaurant and I was having steak and potatoes and the only thing I can think of is that maybe steak and potatoes were being that mom had fixed for dinner when I was 12 because all of a sudden that recollections came back to me out of the blue I’m sitting that felt like an idiot I’m sitting in restaurant crying by myself you know you feel kind of silly so but by having that recollection what I realized is that you know I was afraid of being punished for being lost that’s what my brain had twisted that I wasn’t being punished for sassing him back I was being you get lost you get bashed in the face you know and you get thrown in the corner so by having that recollection I was then able to face that fear and so what did I do I chose to have an outside sales job where I had to try to find places off the time and deal with the fact that I was going to get lost but that was I wanted to face the fear and learn that I can pull Oh I can get a map I can ask somebody for help I’m not going to get bashed in the face I’m going to be okay and I’ve worked on that and I worked on that for years it is amazing how one one moment in time can be so insidious and just contaminate so many other moments of your life and today you hear a lot it’s thrown around the word is triggered and you know I don’t think people realize the magnitude of that you don’t know where they’re coming from and what is that actual trigger so it’s going to set that person off or what’s that you know that final straw that broke the camel’s back all the above is you know you’re you’re running on a program that is that needs to be upgraded yes yes and I find that the spiritual path is what is where my peace lies you know yes I use my mind and and my training and all of that sort of thing but it is to me it is recognizing again I’m a child of God and I I have a lot of value not just as a human being but that as a child of God we all have tremendous value and if we lose anybody then we’re not whole so we’re all equally important in this concept of oneness no one is more important than anyone else we cannot have oneness if we leave one person out yeah so now that the book is coming back out are you going to hit the speaking circuit you’re going to go around the country and hopefully make a movie with your playing good well right now I’m just doing a lot of radio interviews and yes I would be glad to I want to do workshops I want to do speaking engagements that involve other people I have the workshop based on the formula you know P plus B equals Z equals a for people to understand really how powerful that is that we really do need to examine our perceptions and our beliefs to be able to determine you know change change our feelings and change our our minds I’m thinking if you have a minute I can give an example of that that’s pretty quick oh ok so let’s say you guys and I are planning on having lunch at the mall and I get to the mall a little early and so I’m sitting there waiting for you and way down at the other end of the hall I see two guys coming toward me and they look just like you and so I stand out and say hey fellas I’m David Here I am Here I am and then I find out it’s not you okay so I feel like a total idiot and I sit down and pretend like I’m texting somebody on my phone well what has happened with that is I have perceived that it is you and my perceptions are my truth and then my beliefs about you guys are you’re absolutely delightful it can’t wait to have lunch with you and so I’m all excited so my emotions are happy joyful and my actions are fueled by that emotion so I stand up and I say hello but if while I was sitting there somebody else came down the hall of the mall and it’s somebody that I really didn’t want to get involved with at the moment because then I would probably have to invite them to lunch with you guys and I really wouldn’t want to do that at the time because I want you to myself so I would slip into penny or something yes and get out of the sight of that person now again my perception may be wrong and it wasn’t that person at all and it isn’t that I don’t like them as the timing is not right so I get up and I go to Penny so again our perceptions are our truths and then what we believe about those perceptions create the emotion which is the fuel that creates the action or it doesn’t the action is the fuel for the action that is the result of the perceptions and the beliefs so hopefully that explains it quickly but it’s we need to go back to what what do we believe about what we think we’re seeing and and change that it’s interestingly with that that was a great example because you know we all have different perceptions based off of the premise you know of the conversation that this may have happened the first seven years of our lives you know that kind of goes into it is probably just me because I’ve seen a lot of movies recently and be the perception out there right now with the me2 and all that you know that the patriarchy patriarchal society is going away and the man may be perceived that you know they just personally their perceptions out there that obviously needs to be looked at but are they you wanting on something that that’s what they were taught and it’s perpetuated through a generation or multiple generations exactly and one of the things that I would caution people who maybe wanting to join the me2 movement there there are some potential traps there and they could get caught in the trap of judgment and condemnation and and lose sight of our individual freedom comes from forgiveness forgiveness of ourselves and forgiveness of others now that doesn’t mean that the behavior is isn’t inappropriate or whatever but like you were saying men have been raised in an environment where that kind of behavior has you know you you elbow each other in the gym you know I what I look what I got away with or whatever and the the behavior has not been condemned to this extent before and so we have to be careful in my opinion with how we’re handling this and and the transition for young men that are growing up now and young women that are growing up now we have to be careful what we’re trying to teach them because I wouldn’t want a lot of young women to be anti guy because of some of this movement we have to be real careful with all of this now I’m a big movie fan and so I like movies late born I did you know the spy movies like James Bond Bourne Identity oh yeah oh yeah and so right and so there’s an association with that but now you know over the past years you’ve had atomic blonde I just saw I’m a big neon body so I’m a big fan of Jennifer Lawrence so I just saw red Sparrow and so you have these women taking these traditional male roles but are they doing it just as a woman or just as a woman but still doing the male characteristics or are they exploring looking outside of it so I agree with you and that there’s some danger that you’re you might replace that person but you’re still carrying on a lot of that same energy yeah yeah we have to be there there there are some pitfalls but there’s good Falls of everything and that’s okay too I truly believe that it all works out for the best for everyone ultimately however many lifetimes it takes to get there for sure we’re going to have a happy ending and that’s what keeps me going I know you know and we can have a happy life here knowing that we have a happy life a happy ending anywhere is spiritually so I agree another we’re I’m a big fan of Abraham and they’re always saying that you don’t have to die to experience everything that you want and you know many people are going through like you said their programs or what have you think and that’s all there is and like you said there can be a happy ending it doesn’t have to be an ending for you to be happy though that’s right that’s exactly right and we don’t have to wait til the end of the tunnel to see the light because we are the light and if we if we recognize that and we live that light each day then we’re living the the joy that that we can experience forever ahmen well I don’t know why we I would like a good way to package the podcast do you have any other questions did it well I was going to say to Jean affection leave you remember before you incarnated when you said I want to learn about unconditional love no I obviously made that my my master’s thesis or something or my doctoral thesis but I do have a soul Club the students of unconditional love club that I run every week and we just love looking at spiritual solutions to earthly problems and we laugh a lot and figure out you know we scratch our heads how did we get here and what’s the most loving way to move forward and I just love that group they they’re just wonderful people and so I’m working on the idea of starting the soul club online so that people can experience the laughter and the joy and the love that we have in that group so people looking out for it yeah just a good anything a look I’m sorry I miss you yeah please keep us posted when that does come online world will spread low I will today I do want you to share that that muscle that isn’t used by many people especially now is the laughter muscles so if you can give us one of your examples of how are you guy you’re able to last I think I’d love for you to show that how we’re able to laugh at some chatter yeah just your percent only there’s some per cell yeah well we get ourselves see you know I I have to laugh at myself when I get in trouble with my computer because technology just is just beyond me and so you know I’ll go to the class and say okay now this is what happened with the printer this week and this is how I handled it and I only stayed upset two minutes instead of twenty so we’re getting we’re getting there and one day I will get to the point where I don’t even get upset if the printer decides to do something other than what it’s about to do so it we we get comfortable in laughing at ourselves and what we’re getting upset with and we really study I don’t know if you’re familiar with the book A Course in Miracles that is the yeah that’s the fundamental the foundation of what we work off of and so we look to see you know what can we learn from Zen parables what can we learn from A Course in Miracles what can we learn you know from parables from the Bible what can so but we but it’s important that we first be honest with ourselves with where we have stepped off the path and we’re off the path anytime we’re upset we’re either at peace or we’re not at peace and so we if we’re able to look at that and say well this is where I screwed up this week but this is what I did and I certainly got further along on the path this week than I would have several weeks ago you know see and so we want to celebrate as we become more aware and we’re being honest with ourselves and we’re working on not giving power to anything of this realm to interfere with the truth of who we are so that’s that’s what we that’s how we look at that and we do silly things I mean really people we get ourselves into all kinds of messes and so you know if we don’t have a sense of humor we can be in trouble you know it can we can be in trouble we don’t want everything to be so serious but we do want to find legitimate solutions so that we can be at peace and joy most of the time if not all the time yeah it it makes me think of one of my first classes with what’s horizon center where you know I’m coming from the corporate background at 30s and they pull out these crayons and we’re coloring and I’m like I can pray that okay and what did you do it’s at the well but I open the lease to her today it’s funny because today you have like adult coloring groups like you can do searches for like meetups it’s really yes it’s true it’s an art really with you but yes out of context you know when you’re going to you know a corporate meeting or something and everybody pulls out their crayons there’s a little bit of a an oxymoron there somewhere is just strange but um so you caught on though it’s making me screaming for sure so for finding unconditional love a little piece at a time and more information about like a jean sinner where can they find what’s your website in social medias ok website is Genie that spelled j EA mm e Sanner s as in sam a mm er so it’s G nice an ER all lowercase no space dot love that’s my website fantastic and for the record genie for the listeners genie and I spoke gene and I spoke before that I said it would GE urg’d she said either one yes I call myself genie or gene sometimes I don’t I’m not even consistent myself so no do I have an identity crisis I don’t know I don’t know such a pleasure such a pleasure well you have been in tune to another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective this is hamza and i am david adjey T sinner the end of the pleasure having you oh you guys are delight you’re an absolute delight and thank you so much for inviting me on and God bless you you take care yeah thank you for being here touch thank you right [Applause] [Music] listen to intrinsic motivation homeys perspective on radio public it’s a free easy-to-use app that helps listeners like you find and support shows like ours when you listen to our show on radio public we receive direct financial support every time you hear in episode experience our show and radio public today by listening to the show linked in our episode notes and thank you for listening thanks again for checking out another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homeless perspective podcast please check us out on our website at intrinsic motivation dot life where you can click on the speak pipe button and leave any suggestions for a future podcast that you’d like us to cover also check us out on our social media sites we have a YouTube channel Facebook page iTunes podcast in addition to stitcher and Google Play all under intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective check you out next time have a great day you