Wrongfully Accused – How Does It Feel to be Wrongly Accused?

Video Transcript

good morning good evening good afternoon everybody out there in podcast land you are in tuned to another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective this is Hamza and I’m David and today we are speaking with a guest who’s going to talk to us talk to us about associations so everyone will remember as childhood when you were kids that your parents were like you are who you associate with and John is going to talk about a real-life experience that he had I would shoot I let him go into more detail about it but it was I mean this story is just so incredible of how you mu you may be minding your business doing your regular job day-to-day and you get implicated in something that is way bigger than you can ever imagine so I’d like to welcome our podcast guests today John Smith he is the author of embracing the abyss welcome to the podcast John yes thank you glad to be here so before I start your name is John Smith is that your name or are you in the witness protection program no I I had a choice when I was going to pin the author’s name to my book and of course I have a middle name and I have a middle initial but I thought you know why not just make it John Smith people may think in terms of that everyday guy John Smith uh kind of like some of the or the old movies that people thought that it was just a basic name and that’s what I thought and I thought that if people were asking me about something I’d say you know there’s a lot of John Smith’s out out there okay but oh the worries no worries at all and when I started to Puckett’s people we can always remember back when we were kids and I’m a big fan of Leave It to Beaver so when Eddie Haskell comes around you know there’s an association of oh you’re hanging out with the bad kids in the crowd or what have you and if Eddie gets in trouble then you’re like I didn’t do anything or Wally would say I didn’t do anything and they would say well you were with Eddie so just by association you’re guilty by association and I like for you to talk about what was the impetus of writing embracing the abyss well it it kind of rattled around in my head for thirty years and I’d tried a few times to put together all the pieces of notes that I had taken over time then thrown into a large box and it just got to a point to where I needed to get it I needed to get it out of me you know it was something that I had wanted to do for a long time and I so I pursued it I found I found myself a publishing team that I hired I self-published a book and it was more more just getting off my chest I guess it’s a good way to put it absolutely it was it seems like it the period of past like you said over 30 years so I’m just trying to imagine you try to go on with your life but there’s this nagging feeling in your quiet moments either when you’re by yourself or you’re right before you go to sleep or if you wake up in the middle of the night it’s you’re it’s something that your soul is kind of tapping you on your shoulder saying this is a story that needs to be told exactly exactly and more and more I was able to I guess realize that I really did need to get it out that it would be good for me to get it out and allow other things to come into my life and also a viewpoint of life I certainly didn’t expect though the outcome but it did and that’s what my book is about is the presidential pardon sure and we just passed a Veterans Day so I realized in your bio that you are a veteran so thank you for your service and well thank you thank you very much of course I was in Nam so all I want to hear where I’d rather hear is welcome home yeah welcome welcome home for sure and David and I we talk a lot with a lot of our guests about Awakening moments or your hello moment as we were caught in that you we traditionally have a linear life or it fills that way and then there’s this huge disruption that you are not planning on and it puts your life on a totally different tangent which brings us to today the would that happen when you when you said welcome home from Vietnam did you think okay the the hardest part is over now if easy-breezy well I was I was surprised at the I’ll call it treatment I received there wasn’t anybody saying welcome home thanks for thanks for what you did it was something that I really didn’t because I guess I should say that being in the Army and being in Vietnam you didn’t hear much about the only wanted to keep that news away from you they didn’t want the troops to hear about how there were riots in the streets and for dead in Ohio we were just unaware of any of that so when I when I came back I was just I’m seven somewhat of state of shock Wow so with you saying that that could have been the impetus for embracing the abyss or we haven’t even talked about Savings and Loan so I think there are multiple entries that was setting you up to embrace via this absolutely i I am I in my book I refer to the abyss as it’s just basically it’s part of your soul it’s it’s it could be your conscience other things mixed with it involved I took it from Friedrich Nietzsche who basically said when a man looks into the abyss he looks he’s looking at his conscience i remembered the scene in the movie Wall Street the original one and the character that guy who was a Charlie Sheen there was a scene where he was running down the hall and Houghton didn’t know that the feds were in the back getting ready to bust him and how Holbrook stopped him put his hand on his shoulder and said if you remember anything remember this where a man looks into the abyss and nothing looks back at him that’s when a man finds his conscience and I took the I took the abyss from that and I talked to people about how I should name the book and they I had one person tell me oh you you want to talk about your write about avoiding the abyss and within a microsecond I said no way you know this is something up the arms around so and I put my arms around me so it’s embracing the abyss and that’s how it’s how it evolved as a title from the book nice but I think the difference with you referencing Wall Street with Charlie Sheen is that he was in this case doing something that was was not above board and ryu after finishing vietnam you had gone to your traditional education became an accountant and you were working with a firm so let’s just talk about how it was as a accountant well I was a CPA I had been the controller of the construction company that kind of morphed into the SNL I was the chief financial officer of the holding company that bought the SNL but I I was unaware of the activities that the Chairman and the CEO were concocting and of course I was the guy that was involved with compliance and administrative matters and they didn’t want me to know what was going on because again I was the guy that had to sit down with the auditors and look them in the eye about nothing was going on here and of course I didn’t know anything was going on there actually I left I decided on my birthday to leave the company and and that departure I discovered that I figured that should I discovered a box on my front porch six months later and it was a large box and was full of documents that said I was being sued by the eff SLIC for 540 million dollars charged with fraud conspiracy racketeering I mean you name it they listed it this is something interesting about birthdays birthdays be it you know yearly or at the 5 or 10 year mark we usually say 5 or 0 those is when you kind of sit back and you embrace like you were saying and you determine hey do I like the way life is going let’s continue or I should make some changes and it’s often said that people transition close to their birthday as well because they make that ultimate decision along those lines are you familiar with that line of thinking well you know the way I see things is that when you reach those turning points like like you say 40 or 50 or 60 that type of thing that you reassess it kind of kind of way in terms of in your own mind where you are where you thought you’d be where you want to be and so it’s I view it as the framing if that’s what you’re that’s what you’re describing that’s absolutely yeah and it’s really interesting because you’re in and you were working with a company in Texas and you were talking about savings alone which is the 80s and then the 90s you had Enron which I believe was also in Texas so would you say that there’s a hotbed I would say that I’m just bringing levity to the gun revision but you know I would I would say that you know if I used to talk about in my speeches how if you took if I was with a company called Vernon Savings and Loan and if you took the letters of Enron you would find them in the wind the name Vernon that was that was my own letter player wordplay and schürrle but that but the act the mindset and the activities that occurred in both places by certain people were were you know they were almost exactly the same it was and of course the both came down the the SML had a huge effect on guess reputations banking itself Enron of course I believe but one of the large national CPA firms out of business I think it was Arthur Andersen yeah and so that was a you know it was a just here it was like here we go again you know it’s the shock about how something like that could occur and it was you know I I found it that disgusting for what had happened with Enron and then didn’t really argue with people about what I did I just kind of kept it to myself I didn’t get involved with what I did or didn’t do and and this time as time went on they would it haunted me I guess I’ll say and a certain events occurred that I you know I wish I wouldn’t this guy named John Smith and let me ask you because as an outsider looking in and as an outsider that watches the news when these type of things happen we always look for a fall guy and we look for the money guy so in this case it would be the controller the CPA the accountant they should know they’re looking at the books everyday here cooking the books and what-have-you so it’s kind of easy to pinpoint someone such as yourself with your with your expertise if you could talk a little bit about how you were going about your business and how they kept you from that vital information well see the first thing I guess that comes to mind with respect to that is there were there were more than one or two occasions that I would happen to be in the big-time suite I was I was an executive officer but I wasn’t one of the big-time executive officers and the CEO and the chairman would be in room chairman always at the desk CEO guy leaning over the desk drawing writing something so it to that and I would walk in and as I would walk in you know they stopped and that happened more than once and of course I didn’t think well the what I thought was and I always thought this after I left you know was it something I said was it something I did I was basically blaming it on me having done something that they didn’t want me in there and never once thought that they were going to be you know crooks but that’s how it turned out now with it the I’m just trying to think of a time line here where you you were coming up when your birthday and you re-evaluate things and there was something that just wasn’t sitting right so it may have been your higher-self just telling you hey this isn’t where you need to be and they may have looked at it as well if he’s gone it’s easier to blame this person that really couldn’t defend themselves well no not exactly when when I left in September that was probably three at least three months after the CEO and the president deceived and the Chairman and other the other higher executives all of them had been removed that the Federal Home Loan Bank board had came had come in and just they were gone and one thing whenever all these people left I was like through attrition I guess if that’s the right word ended up being the most ranking officer and and all of a sudden I just I was called the chief operating officer and I spent probably two months out of those three months been bombarded with questions and and from people that had been made promises to by the former executives that look that went over there and they were saying to me that I was promised this and I want it delivered and you know like all I could say was I don’t have any wherewithal the bike the S&L; depending wherewithal to do that but what they were looking at were unfulfilled promises that were made by the CEO and the chairman Jonathan asked you this when something like this happens oh the CEO and the chairman do they go into it this is what we’re going to do or there’s something kind of not just start and then it starts to snowball and gets kind of Atta out of control kind of like positive schemes where they you know something you start doing but you don’t realize that it’s going to escalate to the point to where it does so was that – was that their plan their intention from the very beginning to do that or is it just something that kind of gets out of control and it gets just beyond their you know on their grasp well I got a couple of thoughts on that they had a management style that was not there was not any any any one person above you that you that was responsible for you they kind of spread out all of the pieces of what they were doing and so one person didn’t know all the pieces of the fraud that they were creating for instance they would have guy a or guy B or guy C involved in that particular deal that was going on but none of them knew what the other one was doing or what they’d been charged with so the information about what was happening was was basically fragmented it was scattered mmm so that that that style of management allowed them to to kind of you know do what they wanted to do with lots of smoke and he used to say lots of smoke in mirrors because the people that were told what to do they didn’t know what these other people were doing in the same thing so that was I think their management style helped them accomplish what they did but for them and themselves the way that you put it it ain’t it got out of control the I don’t think they ever believed that they would have their empire created come crashing down on them at such a rapid pace and it did and they found themselves in a situation where they had no place to run they had no place to go the president was a guy who CEO was a guy who was young smart bright guy everybody liked him real well and he always figured that he’d be able to outsmart or not be taken to the to the outside by the chairman and that was wrong because it just all it was over it was too much overwhelming for them they had too many people climbing on the door making making noise about where the promises that we were supposed to be provided for us doing this loan and our doing this loan you pulled a bunch of money out of the law for yourself to buy jets vacations staged like that yeah I think that’s my next question John with regards to human nature in that when you were seeing this a lot of smoking mirrors no one really pays attention when everything is a fine old machine if everything’s going great and we see this with with your story like you said with Enron with say a housing bubble that burst in the early 2000s when it’s on the upward trajectory no one’s really questioning it and then if there’s a hiccup then we start to unveil that that’s going to happen and I’m bringing it up because you’ve seen this over the last couple of decades and it hasn’t happened yet so is that’s something where fortunately unfortunately it’s part of a business cycle where things get really good and then that human greed factors in oh yeah of course I think we’re we’re already seeing signs of the unwinding of the QE quantum quantitative easing that occurred under Byrne ACK so much money was was put into for purposes of liquidity and and and now we’re seeing that unwind it’s being unwound now it’s something like 80 billion dollars a month and we’re seeing the effects of that and we’re going to see more of that and then as we think about that you know nobody thinks enough about the national debt anymore that’s going to come home to roost some day and now we live in in the United States we we believe in the US and we want to have happy lives but it’s like I’m thinking someday something like the banks and Cypress endured what was the last year or two when all of a sudden yeah these people’s bank accounts were gone and why were they gone they took pay the debt so this this is something that for me is kind of scary and my my kids and grandkids scary I guess the other side of that question is when you keep pushing it back you may think it least here in the state that well that’s tomorrow’s issue we’ll save that for tomorrow meaning that’s the next generations issue we won’t have to deal with it and so it do you feel that that also comes into play where we can’t run anymore because the debt is so high try there’s no place to hide I mean that’s what was that all a used to say you can run but you can’t hide and that’s that’s what we’re finding the it’s it’s it’s it’s like it’s ticking it’s like a time you know it’s like a time bomb and in one way or another it’s going to go off and we need to start facing it but you know if you look back where the debt was at a certain point and I think you could probably pick a point sometime between Bush and Obama is their presidencies that Bush was somewhere around I think eight or nine billion or trillion rather and when Obama left office it was a you know 18 trillion I think the guy he doubled it I don’t see at this point where we can say that Trump is actually working on that but I believe that when after this first year that the taxing the tax incentives he introduced are and people have more money to spend it’s also going to produce more money for the for the coffers of the of the IRS and that’s where money comes from to offset that debt so how much of that is going to be effective in reducing the debt we don’t know yet that’s a good point but I want to go back for a second so I was watching a popular artist to you know today I guess young whippersnapper what have you but it was really interesting he’s been around for about a year and a half and when he first did an interview you know a national interviewed nationally televised radio station you know he felt some way let’s just say he no one could stop him that type of deal so fast forward until two days ago when this interview happened he had he was supposed to be on this world tour he tampered the tour because he realized that the people that were you know around him were pillaging money from him I mean immensely you hear this a lot in the music industry if you hear it a lot in a lot of industries and the beautiful thing to take away that I got from it was I’m glad he caught it now where he could have he could have gone to jail for some of the fraud that the people around him were conducting and in your case we usually hear oh we got the bad guy and he went to jail and then we go onto the next news cycle how are you you had gotten a federal pardon so did you do that on your own volition or you actually got outside help uh you know I and this is this is part of my book of course that I was you know in order for for me to avoid going to prison back when they the task force the federal task force came to Dallas they didn’t care if you were an officer or a secretary or a bill clerk they figured everybody was involved and everybody was guilty and you know I separated myself from that with my attorney I had to get an attorney to defend myself and in in that process it it became oh boy he spent most of his time beating on me trying to get me to realize that I was on my way to prison and I had this thing in my head of no I’m not I’m right I didn’t do anything wrong he says it doesn’t matter that doesn’t matter at all you’re on your way to prison and he convinced me though that to avoid my hope to avoid prison was to cross the Rubicon and become a member of the other camp and to do that I would have to plead guilty and I would have to help them in their investigations and without any any leniency being involved so I became a government witness the I was I had to be I had to have integrity and Trust in order to be a government witness and I was a global witness for 14 years and then the 15th year FBI agent that you prosecuted my case called me on the phone said hey how about lunch so I met him and we had ice tea and he said I want you to know that I’ve been in touch with the Justice Department attorneys and the FBI agents that prosecuted your case in the other cases of iron savings and we want you to know that we’re all in agreement that we should never have prosecuted you Wow yeah yeah it was this interesting that you said you know after the 14 years you had tea with a person whereas when initially happened you probably were thinking sugar honey iced tea well it yeah he said we don’t know much about pardons but you know we’ll support you if we can and then later on I learned that I had saved the government thousands of hours and millions of dollars and I hand wrote typed my my pardon request I didn’t consult a lawyer I didn’t use a lawyer because this was something I had to do myself and I did and sent it off with my fingers crossed and and after every Thanksgiving I would I would call my pardon attorney who was assigned to me or I guess I was assigned to her her name was hope and I call her after everybody Thanksgiving and I would say you know I was watching on TV I saw President Bush pardoning another Turkey and she feel mr. Smith I can’t tell you anything about your application and I said I know I know I’m just checking to see if it’s in the trash or not and five years five years passed and the phone rang and it was hope and she said without due haste she said mr. Smith I want you to know the President Bush has granted you a pardon and wish you Merry Christmas it was just like that Wow so all this is happening you had to embrace the abyss like what all did that entail the juror the juror Merritt stay intact the children would all happen to your day-to-day life while you were in the abyss you know that was one of the things that my attorney would yell at me he said if you continue thinking that you’re not going to go to jail and you want to challenge them you know the government’s going to run over you with a big truck and they’re training the backup and then to boot again and and he said if you want to continue you have to think about the risk you’re taking which the other guys the other six executives that were involved they thought that they may be ok and no problem but I was said to me you’re going to lose your house you don’t lose your your investments you’re going to lose your bank accounts probably your home and maybe even your marriage but I kept them I kept them all except except for all the money in the bank that went to the lawyers so it became something that that I was warned about but I would say for my own I feared fairly well now it was the stigma that follows though it was the stigma when we were living in Summit County Colorado I I was I was on the County Housing Authority board I was on the school board you know I was a upright citizen and then one day I open up the newspaper well I open up the newspaper that was front page news school board member agrees to felony count and you know how cracked I was up upcoming it was up front about it but still I crawled under a rock we moved away from there because a stigma was stuck to you no matter what you did and in a part of the pardon erased that or at least neutralized it so that if that had come up if I’d had the pardon then I’d say hey guys I had a presidential pardon but that would have kind of made the head I guess smoothed it out sorts but it was certainly the stigma was was difficult to deal with you said two really important thing I mean he felt a lot of important thing but two things that really stood out with just said was that if what I do day to day I may be good at that because I’d be that day to day but I really need to seek out expertise and things I don’t know about great and then the other part was in cases like this if it’s a large corporation may have their own legal counsel and so they’ll say well you just use our legal counsel old bill steer you in the right direction where there may be more self-interest and you get too short another stick exactly my response to that it is is not you know they’re they’re out for themselves and the other ones who hire the lawyers the lawyers are the ones that know who they get paid by the other executives they all had to individually get their own lawyer did any of these like the CEO and the chairman did they end up doing any prison time oh yeah absolutely most everybody did there’s only one guy that didn’t and that was just a personal issue I think one one guy the CEO was initially given the largest sentence I think 30 years and then and then he challenged that and I think he served five five years six years and the chairman served the same amount of time five or six years and the other served anywhere from a year to two years or six months to two years in prison so my my attorney the guy saved me absolutely Satan he saved me from the feds so after something like this is part of a you know it was part of it that you can’t and not necessarily you but like maybe like the CEO and the chairman and the bills above you that they can’t be involved in any kind of SNL business or in the financial sector at all or yeah the top top two guys were band I don’t think that any of the others wanted to pursue that you know I I felt uncomfortable about going to trying to go get a job somewhere because they were going to ask me if you ever had any felony convictions and the answer was yes this of course was before my pardon so I became self-employed I became an entrepreneur and it was something I’m glad I did because it it helped me avoid more stigma I guess it’s a good way to put yeah what do you think the difference is I mean you can’t gloss over the fact that you said you had looked in the front page of a paper so this was before technology where we’re on a 24/7 news cycle and so right and so the news just passes quicker and people make decisions snap decisions without getting all of the facts so when you said you had to leave your community that you are a part of and you felt like a pariah is there anything you would do differently no I don’t think I would because when when I received my pardon I it allowed me to look back to look back at everything and you know I’ve tried to sum it up but that’s certainly easier said than done but I viewed it from the standpoint was it because that I survived that I persevered that I was a victim or then I was just screwed and then I thought in terms of more and more as time had gone by I realized that I believe now I realized that I was just selected to go through what I had done what I’ve been through and that’s also the premise for for writing the book my first book embracing the abyss to writing the book that was the motivation for me to do that and so I was I was I view it is a you know I don’t know why but you know I was selected that is actually a really good segue offline we were talking at you and I were talking about in our brief dinner teens about your attorney he felt that you had a divine agreement to go through these situations in this current life I like for you to talk a little bit about that well is his name was Steve Boucher it was an extremely bright person telogen tremendous communicator he had a great reputation in Dallas he but he he turned he actually turned away from from that aspect of the law because in those days fighting for clients and fighting against the other lawyers it was pretty high pretty high pretty high on the charts for everybody there so he ended up for himself he was actually the creator of mediation in Texas and he been invented that I’ll say to the point that he had he recruited people mass mass face to face with with others and so he introduced me mediation so that the lawyers wouldn’t wouldn’t involve themselves anymore he had in a previous life Steve had been cruel judge and a very cruel judge and the way he was to create a karmic event or find a karmic event it was going to allow him to to correct that behavior was me so him saving me from the feds was his was the right for all those wrongs that he did in ancient ancient Rome yes we did have a pact we still have a pact it still it’s ongoing today and I believe I’ve recently discovered what that what my end might be because I know what he his part was his part was to save me but but within was the writing of embracing the abyss it’s it’s helped me to formulate her least I’ve been told it it’s a conversational read it’s only 200 pages and when people read it you know the reviews that I have had were those that that something changed in them they felt so they felt different they felt there was a transformation going on so I began thinking of how I could you know do that again you can recreate that again embracing the abyss and what I’ve come up with is something like the you know jack canfield as an author he’s the guy that did the chicken chicken of Chicken Soup for the Soul yeah and I was in a seminar the other day and I started thinking and boom it hit me and I thought you know if people felt changed come from what was in this book this particular book why shouldn’t there be more change that they can involve themselves with if I were to create because the purpose of embracing the abyss in the book was that the abyss is part of your soul it’s part of your conscience it is your conscience it’s it’s something that you deal with all the time but you don’t realize it and I felt like that if I could take that same change and transformation that people felt and apply that to say certain groups or certain people through through another book that I will and I’m going to it’ll be called embracing your abyss for the unloved embracing your abyss for the challenged embracing your abyss for lots of things that it can apply to that people would look at and say this is for me I want change and therefore it’ll pant it needs to be a smaller book it’s not going to be a 300 page book every time but I think that there’s a lot of a lot of opportunity to do that and this only came to me in the last 72 hours I will add for from a marketing standpoint that Jack was really Jack Canfield was really good at pitching down his book so it started out with Chicken Soup for the Soul but then it had grown to Chicken Soup for the golf player or Chicken Soup for the teenager so where the regular person may not read Chicken Soup for the Soul it will speak to them if I’m a golfer or a teenager in this aspect so if you see something like that it may be a series well I’m hoping so because I view it for the people that that you know have been accused wronged mistreated challenged blamed you know there’s a lot of people that they’re going to have a lot of they’re gonna identify with that kind of a situation and I think my talking about that it’s going to help you know Jack took his his concept and he I think he had test two hundred and thirty eight different books any scope he’s now sold half a billion copies of chicken chicken suit it just amazing just amazing he’s an amazing guy he was the guy leading the seminar that I went to absolutely other day Justin let me know I got a John oh sure and if you got it and we’re talking about it now I think it’s probably it’s probably more ammo for you to keep it going so follow your bliss in that case instead of embracing the abyss that’s right try this and now I can I can help people embrace their service so let me ask you this John because I am or I have been a one of those extreme sports guys like loving the adrenaline and it was always chasing with some gentleman where you felt like you’re alive like Eckhart Tolle talks about living in the now and being present and you had gone through Vietnam right and then you have gone through the same as and loans crisis well both of those were embracing the abyss where you had to be alive you had to think in the present moment are you done bracing the abyss or do you think that there is a new challenge that awaits you boy I know that whatever the Vernon sightings thing was going on I used to say well there’s two things that they can’t do to me one they can’t eat me and two they can’t send me – nom okay now I look at you know that may very well come it may work very well come I don’t know I think I’ve done my chosen part already and I think my part now and that’s the part that I have my PI have the PAC that Steve and I had I think it’s part of my pact my what I’m supposed to do is to find a way to share what I’ve learned and with others so that they can accomplish they should be what I’ve accomplished and what that is is riding the wrong get right with yourselves and that way you get you have courage have to have it and I learned that when you have courage you’ve got to share it and hope and the other is you have to have a belief in yourself so yes I have a belief in myself I think I could do it again whatever came to me but now I’m focusing on how many times I can recreate these thoughts and feelings about what people are struggling with to help them get through what they’re getting through maybe it’s wrongly convicted maybe it’s maybe it’s just the general losers but then you know why not have an embracing your abyss for winners as well now the thing I love about 2018 is that the lines continue to get blurred and so as you’re talking I’m trying to imagine an environment where a traffic a classically-trained accountant and a classically trained attorney or talking about the vine agreement and reincarnation and past lives but what type of feedback have you gotten over the years we’re regarding those subject matters I’ve had different feedback depending upon I guess the the person’s upbringing I looked at the possibility of trying to make it ubiquitous for the world but that’s not going to sit well with certain religious groups more than more than half of the world with their beliefs believe in reincarnation or incarnation and I don’t think that is those I talked with about that because at one point in my life I didn’t believe it and tell hi I was just blown away when when I discovered it I didn’t I didn’t know all this was going on I know that when Steve died he died first from almost died because he had a heart heart failure and after a year he got a transplant and then four months later he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer so as it’s that kind of metaphysical life for thinking that allowed me because I’ve been studying it for about twenty years that allowed me to think that and know that you know when you’re finished with your mission that you came here to do then you know you go you go but you you’ve earned the right to go up to go on and that’s how I viewed it and I’m hoping that more people will view it but it all depends on you know where they where they go on Sundays or Fridays or Saturdays – and what they listen to how are you able to determine that he with a judge in a previous life he one of our meetings towards the towards the end after after we could see that the way had been cleared that there weren’t going to be any more problems for me and it judge had granted me a release from probation after just two years and he publicly thanked me for what I had done in the investigations and prosecutions so it was it was something that he said one day to me at lunch he said you know he said I just had a past life regression and I said really tell me about it tell me about it and of course we were finishing up we both had to be places so I didn’t learn about it until probably a lot later on than I should but that’s when I learned that’s what he told me he had his own past life regression and then the other part in terms of the pact that came that came to me through via a medium and I assume most of the world or probably a lot of your listening office knows what what mediums are what they do and I sat one day at a holistic event kind of like to go those things and get a neck rub and and you know or a foot rub and you get a card reading or something and I sat down in front of because I asked those people who in here are the best psychics who in here are the best mediums so they gave me a name and I went over and I put my name on his list and I would get another head rub and my phone started ringing and I answered they said are you John Smith yes he said he come over here and start I said no I got I got to finish this this foot rub I’ve got coming up next and he said all right hurry up Suze can’t so after I got all that done and went over there and this guy’s full called a loom and he I sat down in front of him and he said are you John Smith I said yes he said you know somebody named Steve I said yes he said he’s been bothering me all morning he said it’s been pestered me all morning and it was Steve’s and I didn’t get first I was you know I was thought what are you talking about as possible and then he starts and then Steve takes over and Steve starts talking through this guy and it was just you know blew me away and and some of the some of the one of the chapters or maybe two of the chapters towards the back of the book those are conversations I had with Steve that’s him talking and and it was just unbelievable I mean it’s not unbelievable it’s believable now at one point in my life that would have been could kick don’t believe that but listen to that but this was I was just you know convinced totally convinced from what the guy said how could this guy know all this stuff you know the guy I’m sitting in front of the media it wasn’t the medium it was Steve on the other side so John recognizing going through this experience that you you mentioned word you know having a pact with steven allah hamza and myself our backgrounds were very familiar with that we call them contracts so that it make you start to look back in your lifetime and realize hey you know i don’t just have contracts with or pacts with two Steve you know I’ve probably had pacts with many you know most people or many people in my lifetime did you start looking back at you know different packs you might have had with you know family friends whoever and just wondering what those were well I I felt like that there was a chapter in my book where I describe the the room with no walls was a cloudy existence smoky and that was just a cloud and that’s where people chose their parents if they were going to then you know reincarnate they they chose their brothers and sisters and all this reminded me or I guess it allowed me to view that in another stamp from another standpoint I never thought of before that all this has been selected for the purpose of me getting to coming to earth to to try to you know learn my lessons karmic lessons for me to do that and one one thing I when I call it a it was the divine agreement that the you know I was born in Dallas on September 15th and Steve was born a week later in in Nashville so that kind of gave me a you know a buzz as well when I want to put that that together but it did I think more importantly that I find not just my siblings or my parents that I will come into contact with someone and I’ll kind of get a feeling about you know I know this person from somewhere and a lot of times I’ll probably through meditation following day that I’ll think to myself you know that could have been some somebody coming from a from a previous lifetime somebody I knew back when so I often look for that now I’m aware of that now because it can be good it can be bad just have to be on your guard about what you’re dealing with are you familiar with the author and Michael Newton his last name Newton yes no I’m not so with I think it came out in the 90s but anyway he had written the book journey of souls and you do a youtube search and they have a lot of his audios and stuff on there so most people are enamored by oh yeah was you know an Egyptian king or what have you and what’s the journey of souls it’s more of a life between lights so you can do a regression and find out before you incarnated what would the what are the lessons are supposed to learn and so on and so forth because it could I mean you can however you interpret the information is germane to you but it seems that if you could look at it that way from that approach you may get more from it than oh and in our previous wise this is what we because there can be some overlapping themes that you continue to go through well if you’re embracing me a bit that will kind of show you or how you prepare for your current incarnation exactly and I intend to hopefully describe that in a manner that others will feel like they can help themselves in whatever potholes are in their road or barriers put in front of them that they’ll be able to overcome those but first they have to overcome those at within themselves and and that’s where I found my my string and in dealing with that in anything that comes to me in the future it certainly may alarm me certainly may may cause me to – I guess become angry profitably but preparation I think is the word I’m seeking here and I think that I can help others prepare for what they’re dealing with and how they can you know be happier about it I used to think when I would do speaking that I wish I had something that I had in my pocket that I could give to people to put it in their pocket and that way would help them lead a different life or a better life they’d enjoy life more and I’m hoping that this message about putting something in your pocket can come from embracing your abyss for those that are fill in the blank absolutely I’m thinking with the internet there’s so many groups for everything if you like surfing if you like badminton and I’m sure there’s some CPA that are going along their lives and they think everything is fine and are unaware of any upheaval or any signs to look for so you’ve been through the trenches you’ve embraced the abyss so you don’t have a beacon yeah well that’s uh that’s that’s that’s now the coal in my engine as I as I’m getting on another train and I hope it lasts for a long time it’s cold John it’s my green energy well I’m not bothered by that but some are I’ll have to find something green then for the end for those look for the look about if you know and they had a little green locomotives and I’m the one to do it you know it all holds down to courage and belief in yourself remember the thing that I think I can I think I can and then get to the top and go down the other side I knew I could I knew I could you know the little engine because you’re sure and it’s comforting that you did get through it and the people that are going through it right now they may not see and they won’t see an end in sight and so you’re definitely proof that this is campus transitional just like everything else it’s not long-lasting and if you stay with the wherewithal you can get through it right okay right so where can people pick up the embracing the abyss and where could they get in touch with you what if they’d like to get you for a speaking engagement or learn more about you well the book is this book is on Amazon embracing the abyss I will certainly mark it as best I can the upcoming stuff I’m getting ready to write my my speaking of course I just got back from Philadelphia for a four-day visit and one of those days I was getting the opportunity to speak about about my book and about the abyss and that went very very well email would be a good way to get in touch with me would be John my name John at embracing the abyss calm would be the best way to get in touch with me fantastic well you have just been in tuned to another episode of intrinsic motivation from a homies perspective this is Hamza and I’m David and John thanks for sharing embracing the abyss with us please stay in touch with us with your future endeavors I will spend my pleasure guys yes thank you all right thanks again for checking out another episode of intrinsic motivation from our homeless perspective podcast please check us out on our website at intrinsic motivation dot life where you can click on the speak pipe button and leave any suggestions for a future podcast that you’d like us to cover also check us out on our social media sites we have a YouTube channel Facebook page iTunes podcast in addition to stitcher and Google Play all under intrinsic motivation from a homeys perspective check you out next time have a great day you

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